UPDATE: SAME THREAD, JUST MOVED UP IN DATE/TIME.
I am NOT an expert on this topic, and I recognize that many of you know much more than I do about this situation. Since there seems to be a need for somewhere to collect the information and discuss it, I offer up this thread. Use it as you find necessary.
Latest reports:
Criminal Complaint against Oregon protesters:
http://documents.latimes.com/oregon-protest-criminal-complaint/
Since Jan. 2, Ammon Bundy and other armed activists had occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon to protest the government’s prosecution of two local ranchers — as well as federal administration of public lands in the West.
On Tuesday, one occupier was killed and eight others were in custody on federal charges after surprise arrests and an altercation between authorities and some of the protesters.
Below is the federal criminal complaint against those arrested.
pdf (thanks BigMamaTEA!):
Click to access BUNDYCOMPLAINT.pdf
Stella's Place 
Thank you Stella.
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this comment won’t show up and you don’t have to retrieve it…but just want to THANK YOU, Stella, for starting this thread.
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I wish I could automate approval of your comments! And you are welcome.
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don’t worry, stella….going to keep my comments to a minimum here so you don’t have pull me out of The Lounge constantly…but I will still lurk.
nice site, BTW.
you’ve done a nice job.
good vibes.
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Thanks, smiley, but I don’t want you to keep your comments to a minimum because of the stupid spam bucket!
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fbi-oregon-occupying-group-had-explosives-night-vision-goggles-3-more-arrested/ar-BBoOKGo?ocid=HPCDHP
Not sure if this has already been posted. Apologies if it has.
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I just got home but there are apparently still 4 CfCF members at the refuge. I’ll post some links and information later tonight. Thanks Stella.
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From what I can tell the indictment is airtight. Rock solid. These guys are legal toast. If they try to argue jurisdiction it will be from federal prison. I hope they knew what they were doing and are willing to pay the price. They should have got a good lawyer and pushed the edges instead of what they did. JMO.
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Of course it’s airtight they want them shut up.
How many lawyers do you think these ranchers have had over the years? Ranchers have been trying to fight these battles in the courts again and again and even when they win they still lose.
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LaVoy a few days before he was killed by the US government.
[video src="https://videos.files.wordpress.com/HiwZVZza/burns-oregon-1-22-16-update-fbi-response_640x360_mov_dvd.mp4" /]
Some random thoughts.
I am very skeptical of McConnell’s story. His story does not make sense. Usually the reason things do not make sense is that they are not true. Why were there 6 people in one vehicle, with the back seat holding three people and only 2 people in McConnell’s Jeep? Convenient that it was Ammon Bundy with McConnell. Downright bizarre that the FBI chuckled and threw their hands up in the air , after only 2 hours of interrogation telling told McConnell “Well, shucks it looks like we got nothing on you, now trot along boy.”
Really?
I really don’t like airing my misgivings about McConnell but I have many.
(McConnell video is included in this link).
http://www.maxim.com/news/oregon-standoff-one-dead-arrested-2016-1
Cliven Bundy believes the story of LaVoy’s death that is being promoted by the MSM, the FBI and McConnell is a lie. Why would Ammon lie to his wife? Why would Ammon’s wife lie to Cliven. The Bundy’s are already in a world of trouble. There is no reason for Cliven to come out and lie about something that an autopsy can easily disprove.
When will LaVoy’s body be released?
Why have no news outlets sought to get pictures of the car?
https://youtu.be/YT9nITzPLTM
Statement from Ammon Bundy.
My understanding is that there are still 4 men present inside of the Malheur NWR. They are diehards and it seems willing to die for the cause.
But who are they?
It seems that the CfCF or a Facebook account claiming to represent them is trying to disavow themselves from the current occupiers of the MNWR.
https://www.facebook.com/CitizensForConstitutionalFreedom.NEWS/?fref=nf
This is America? A few FBI vehicles at the MWLR.
http://koin.com/2016/01/28/fbi-removes-barricades-reopens-road-near-malheur-refuge/?cid=twitter_KOINNews
I am not advocating a taking up of arms. The men who would come to call themselves the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, put themselves in a no win situation the minute that they did so. The deck is stacked. What they did was illegal and there was no way the government was going to capitulate or even listen to any of the CfCF’s valid constitutional grievances. I still believe that the men, the leaders of this group believe they acted constitutionally, if not me, who, if not now, when. I believe they thought many American patriots would join them.
And who the heck is who is “Victoria” the young woman who gave a first hand account?
“A government of laws, and not men.” John Adams
Unfortunately it seems that the government has exempted itself from the law. We are a nation of unequal laws, one for the government and her minions, and one for people who live within the confines of the law of the land. The federal government seems to do whatever it damn well pleases regardless of laws which limit that power. Everything the government does it does with a loaded gun.
And this is very long and I am getting more depressed and angry as I type it so I am going to stop.
Hopefully I have organized this well.
And now yes I am shouting.
WHEN WILL LAVOY FINNICUM’S BODY BE RELEASED?
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That was very well organized. Thank you.
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LaVoy Finicum’s last interview
Talking about the meeting that they were headed to when they were stopped by agents in 11 government vehicles and LaVoy was shot to death and the others were arrested.
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hence the timing of this incident.
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Just released so I haven’t watched it yet.
Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016
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Watching the video while I’m listening to Donald. McConnell is a liar. LaVoy did not charge anyone. The FBI claims he was reaching for a gun in his waistband, that is impossible to tell from the video.
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he was clearly shot before he “reached” for anything.
looks to me like he either was trying to balance himself, almost knee-deep in snow with a gun wound, or instinctively grabbing at his wound.
his jumping out of the vehicle IMMEDIATELY may have actually saved the lives of those still inside it.
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Muzzle flashes after LaVoy is down.
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Walking away to devote my time to the honorable vet at the Trump event and to keep from screaming.
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The video is proof that the LaVoy was not charging the FBI when he was shot, and proof that the FBI fired at the people in the truck. Proof that McConnell was misinformed and that his eyes lied to him 🙄 Now LaVoy may have been going for a gun in his waistband that is simply unseeable with the view we are offered. LaVoy almost hit an agent with his truck, in fact I thought he did, the agents knew that LaVoy said he would die before he went to jail. I can’t tell if LaVoy was shot after he was down, if he had a gun, then all bets are off.
Victoria’s account may be close to accurate, the laser lights were easy to see as was the disturbance of the snow around the LaVoy’s truck caused by bullets being fired.
And who does the FBI think they are fooling? There is either clearer video out there or they purposely shot this video as to obscure some of what happened.
I’m not buying the official story or the story that McConnell is selling.
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I’ve watched it three times now. His arms were clearly up and spread out. It almost looks like he was shot and his hand automatically fell to his wound and then he was shot in the back.
Without audio it’s hard to tell though. Some are saying he was reaching into his pocket but then others are wondering if he wasn’t being given differing demands, such as drop your weapon.
I haven’t watched past the flashes, trying to focus on the shooting.
Ryan Bundy was in that truck, if they weren’t shooting at the truck how did he get shot?
Hopefully some of the folks from CTH that are good at enhancing videos will work on this one.
This video was taken from the air, surely there is video on the ground.
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Looking at this enhanced video, it seems that the man is reaching into his coat two or three times before he is shot.
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On the other hand, he may have been shot and grasping at his wound, which is very much a possibility. I see the reason that they (FBI) might release this video as it results in that ambiguity from that distance. My wager would be that he was shot while his hands were in the air and he grasped at his side or chest, which gives the appearance–from that distance–of grabbing for a weapon.
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My youtoob capture program doesn’t produce a view-able video. (.webm filetype) Someone should capture that in mp4 before it is taken down.
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It’s such poor video it’s hard for me to tell. It appears he’s reaching in his pocket, however he could have been shot, there appears to be some recoil right before the first reach.
Although without audio we don’t know what demands he was being given. Was he being told to drop his weapon and was reaching to do that? It would also be helpful to know on which side did he carry his gun?
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The woman in the truck says he had his hands up and was shot. The video seems to confirm it. It was not FBI who shot him it was state police. The roadblock was on a blind curve….stupid. I think the case is open and not settled. Clearly he did not “charge” the cops. Clearly his hands were up. Whether it was justified depends on when the cops shot him, and what was being said to him by the cops.
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I stand corrected, I didn’t know who was conducting the roadblock.
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If the footage was taken by drone, then can we presume that it was operated by FBI? I don’t know.
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Something else the video doesn’t tell us is why did he leave after the first stop? Did they shoot at them then and they believed they were going to kill them?
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Ryan got out of truck with his gun in right hand and hands up. He then threw gun on ground and walked around to be arrested. His friend was already dead on the ground. They shot the truck up real good before the people got out. For no good reason. Why did they pull them over so far from the roadblock and why the roadblock on a blind curve? A lot of questions. They had valid warrants but what a stupid way to make the arrest….The State Police and FBI bungled it and a man is dead.
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According to the FBI the flashes were flash bangs to disorient the passengers in the truck. Because it is always a good idea to disorient armed individual in a volatile situation 🙄 They shot at the truck you can see the snow move at one point and as you say Ryan was shot, how did that happen?
A lot of obfuscation is going on.
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The police and FBI apparently knew where they were going. Why not arrest them at their destination?
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LaVoy said that they were meeting with like minded people (in the two LaVoy videos above, I think it is in the second one) so the FBI would have been adding armed citizens to the mix if they waited until the CfCF arrived at their destination.
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why didn’t they arrest them at the refuge, before they headed out to that route ?
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Because there were more armed citizens at the MNWR and it would have been more difficult to arrest them, LE would more than likely been met with armed resistance if they tried a siege or arrest at the MNWR.
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The FBI claimed they were just shooting basically pepper spray.
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If LaVoy’s body is released the wounds will tell some of the tale. It looks to me like he is going for his gun with his right hand. There is no no crumpling of his body, or physical reaction at the point where LaVoy reaches inside his coat which tends to make me think he reached first and was shot second. I’m not willing to say he wasn’t going for a gun, not given his previous statements he made, the fact that he wasn’t obeying orders from men he believed had no legitimacy, and the fact that he ran from a stop and almost hit an agent, the agent was reckless as he put himself right in the path of LaVoy’s truck, but LaVoy was fleeing when he almost hit him.
I think the first shot hit LaVoy in the head. He had his hands out and up far from his body, I think he was startled by the agent in the woods and pivoted to see what was happening behind him, likely the snow was slippery and he would have brought his hands in a bit to turn but it then appears in that a split second LaVoy’s right shoulder dips and he puts his hand inside his coat and he is immediately shot. It is impossible to tell with the resolution and distance but that is my perception. Victoria said that LaVoy was yelling something like “You’ll have to shoot me” likely he was fleeing toward the woods with his hands up and out when an agent doubled around to the woods and came up behind him.
That said something is still not right, what the heck is the tale from McConnell all about, why send someone out to muddy the waters. Of the last 9 people who left MWLR 3 were arrested and 6 were let go. What? There is no way they could clear so many people so quickly, perhaps the feds already knew they were clear.
LaVoy said that they were on their way to have a meeting with like minded folks who were planning to go rouge in another situation where ranchers believed the government was acting unconstitutionally . If there was an informant at the MWLR there is no way that the FBI, State Police or any law agency would ever let that to happen.
According to LaVoy (two videos above) things had very recently become different in the behavior of the agents who had been up at the MWLF. There is a reason for that.
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I believe that is still up in the air, but that’s just my opinion.
As for the guy who jumped in front of the truck, it looks to me like he shot through the windshield.
I still want to know what made them leave after the first stop? Did they shoot at them?
This video doesn’t really clear anything up, it’s horrible video and with no audio we can’t hear what was being said nor do we hear when shots were fired.
I’m not going to buy this is the only video, just the most unclear video.
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It clears one thing up McConnell’s tale of being able to see what was happening wasn’t true. And McConnell’s tale of LaVoy charging LE was not true. So in that it has opened up more questions, such as why was a man who has been involved with the CfCF for 3 weeks allowed to walk after a 2 hour chat session? Why did MCConnell tell the tale he told?
Who is Victoria?
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It clears something else up, if you burn businesses to the ground, loot and block major highways, they will just watch you do it and threaten local cops.
Have a peaceful protest on “their” land and make people aware of how dirty they are and not only will they come after you but they’ll use the local police to help them do it.
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I came ’round to see what has been discussed on this subject, following the death by shooting of LaVoy Finicum. This is my second stop, after the treehouse. To your credit you have an entry for this subject; at the other, I could find none.
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I think there has been recent discussion at CTH on the last entry for this subject – January 10?
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Thanks stella, I was referring to entries there after Finicum’s, which is a few days ago. I was only looking for information on the man’s death…nothing about Trumpsters.
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[death]
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I meant this one (nothing to do with Trumpsters!):
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/10/another-unbelievable-update-why-does-harney-county-sheriff-david-ward-want-hammond-family-story-hidden/
There are comments from this morning.
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I’ve got to run.
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Has this video version been posted? (Sorry for my overall ignorance):
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A look at the sheriff’s side.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sheriff-in-oregon-standoff-no-stranger-to-battle-%e2%80%94-and-peacekeeping/ar-BBoTrdP?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCDHP
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Another article.
“Ammon Bundy’s lawyer, Lissa Casey, said her client is not aligned with those remaining at the refuge and wants to go back to his family in Idaho. “He is done in Harney County; his message has been sent,” she said.”
Make of that what you will.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/prosecutors-use-refuge-occupiers-own-words-against-them/ar-BBoSW3a?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCDHP
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From what I have read the men who remain at the MWR are there with their own mission.
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I don’t know much except for what I put here. So, not sure what their mission is?
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I don’t remember off hand but the man’s name is known and he has been involved in a lot of things. The opinion that I read of him is that he is a self promoter. I don’t have a clue about him though.
Just looked up his name David Fry.
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-standoff-negotiations-with-fbi-stall-at-malheur-refuge/
I believe Ammon Bundy’s wife has said that Fry does not represent the CfCF.
Ammon renewed his call of them to stand down.
http://news.yahoo.com/latest-fbi-4-holdouts-remain-oregon-wildlife-refuge-172822547.html
Lawyers for the jailed leader of an armed group occupying an Oregon wildlife refuge say they have recorded a phone call with Ammon Bundy telling the four people remaining at the refuge that it is “his authentic desire for them to stand down.”
Meanwhile everyone involved at the MWR has been denied bond.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/28/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-siege-arrests/
Apparently the feds are rounding up people who were not there during the “traffic stop.”
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I just think Ammons call for them to stand down is a little late. He isn’t someone I respect. I wonder also what message it is that he thinks he has sent, which apparently wasn’t sent until someone had died.
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I have said this before and I will say it again, for anyone on the outside looking in, I ask for you to put yourself in this man and this family’s shoes. If your only knowledge of the federal government since the day you were born was them trying to take your house, trying to take your pets, threatening your life and your family’s life, what would you do?
I know Ammon Bundy is not doing all of this just for the country or just for the other ranchers, but himself as well. Some don’t respect him for that, some don’t respect him because he took out government farm loans, which btw is sometimes the only loan you can get, it is hard to find banks that will loan money without the government backing the loan. Blame the government for making it that way. Some don’t respect him because he technically broke the law. Some are blaming him for Lavoy’s life.
I though am not one of those people, I do respect him, he was willing to stand up and fight for himself, and regardless if it is something I would have done, he still was willing to stand up and fight even if it meant his own life. They all were. I am not going to fault him that it was personal.
I also had a hard time understanding why he was telling everyone to stand down and have heard many who had gotten to know him who were also confused. Now I’m not so sure he said it and instead his attorney said it for him after reading the following article.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/us/oregon-standoff-ammon-bundy/index.html
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I don’t blame him for Lavoy’s death. That was a choice by Lavoy to run. I can’t determine from that video if he was shot before he dropped his hands. I don’t know.
I have always enjoyed reading things from your perspective even if I don’t always agree.
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I have read many who have blamed him for Lavoy’s death and I’m sorry but reading, “I don’t respect him and it’s too late to tell them to stand down,” sounded like you were one of them.
As for Lavoy running did you hear what Shawna Cox said happened at the first stop? I wasn’t in their situation so I can not say what I would have done. Would I have did as Ryan Paine did and get out after being shot at? Would I have tried to run like Lavoy did? I honestly can’t sit here and say what I would have done.
I think it’s far too easy for those of us sitting at home, myself included, to judge those who instead of calling out the government on our computers put themselves literally in the line of fire to call out the government.
There are some things I do tend to take very personally and those things are usually things I’m too intimately aware of. This is one of those things and I do get emotional about it because I have sat and listened to grown men who were broken. I have helped families pack and leave their homes, homes that had been in their families for generations. I have listened to wives who one day were happy because they won a long fought battle in court that took years to listening to them cry when the government or some environmental group appeals and they have no more money for lawyers.
That is why I respect the Bundys, because even if they’re doing all of this for themselves, they have still given those people a voice.
That is also why I do not judge them because if I had been pushed the way they have been pushed I might do worse than camp out at a refuge because none of us know what we would do until we go through it.
So I apologize for sounding harsh and I never want anyone to agree with me all the time. I just wish people would focus on the message instead of how the message is sent.
I’m closer to the top of that list than some, so the message hits real close to home because I always know if they succeed and their success has grown over the years, I’m next.
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I didn’t mean that to say I blamed him for Lavoy’s death. The statement to me made no sense.
I don’t know Shawna Cox and have no way of knowing if what she says is the truth.
I didn’t take what you said to me as harsh. I do think Ammon Bundy is doing this for his own reasons and not really in it for all. But like you say, it is getting a message out.
The ones I feel for and want their story told is the Hammonds. I may have gotten their name wrong, I hope not.
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Normally the liberal MSM and all the usual leftists would be 24/7 ranting about a story like this. The SPLC and the rest would be out and about with the domestic terrorists routing and gun control. It would be over the edge. But nothing…crickets. I was wondering why until I ran across this item. Hillary is cancel deep in the snow up there in Oregon. This guy seems to be pretty credible.
What are the feds really trying to protect? Are they just trying to stop cattle grazing and routine burns on that land, or is there something more far precious at stake?
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/the-clintons-is-the-oregon-standoff-really-about-uranium/
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Another reason for MSM blackout of what would normally be a juicy story for them. They haff dere orders.
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For now…just think Hillary and her foundation, for they are deeply implicated in this evil scheme along with the Russian State Nuclear Energy Corporation, Rosatom, and a few questionable Canadians. I wonder if Rafael Edward Cruz knows these Cuanuks?
Why not….after all this is all part of the North American Union and believe me Rafael Edward Cruz’s bill to rid states of the BLM and in turn do them a favor of allowing the states who can’t afford to financially maintain said lands to sell them to the PRIVATE SECTOR . WHAT CRUZ WILL NEVER TELL YOU IS …. this is all part of the beauty of the United Nations New World Order Wildlands Act for the 21st Century Agenda. Those who were doubters, or thought it was just zealous chatter…..look and see. Behold the plan of deceit unfolds before your own eyes.
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Ted Cruz too? You want that too? Well here it is. Amazing.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/07/10/3458798/ted-cruz-auction-off-public-lands/
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This is all too fishy
Federal lands make up one-fifth of the nation’s landmass and over 50 percent of the land Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Oregon and Alaska. Under Cruz’s proposal, these states, which are home to some of the country’s most beloved national parks, forests, wildlife areas and iconic natural resources, would be forced to either pass the costs of managing these lands along to state taxpayers or, more likely, give them away or sell them off for mining, drilling, and logging.
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I went up Monday to Burns OR. Took the day off of work and drove the 6 hours from where I live in No. Cal. Felt compelled to be there, take my stand, and to see for myself what was happening there. I am not militia, I own several weapons but took none with me.
What I observed: Drive up there is through miles and miles of open, high desert of Southeast Oregon. Harney county is huge, but sparsely populated. Majority live in Burns/Hines city, 2,850 per Wiki.
I had contacted the PacificPatriotsNetwork (PPN), was told to come up on Monday as that was the day they were going to file at the courthouse at noon. They also asked my name etc. so I could be vetted, what I assume was now being done due to the fakes being taken in.
As I walked up the road towards the courthouse at 11:30, there was a large gathering, maybe 200, already in front of the courthouse. I was like, “Yeah!”, but that quickly turned to “NO!”. As the signs came into view, they were pro-FBI/sheriff. I will refer to them as the GOVS. They were there early, staked out the high ground, and were well prepared, signage and such. I think this was in response to the previous Saturday since I heard that there were more GOVS here than previous.
As I continued on and joined the few “militia” there, about 20, I was a bit unsettled. Actually. “Oh Crap!’, was my thought. I will refer to these as the PATS. And I began thinking that what I read about the town wanting the troublemakers gone was true.
I started a conversation with a man there, a Oregonian from the next county over, and he filled me in on details he knew. Some of this is known, but I will repeat what I heard in case someone hasn’t caught it all, I know I haven’t.
He was mostly upset with, (after the shooting of Lavoy Finicum), the fact that the Harney County Sherriff was not elected, but appointed. As he went on to explain, the highest law official in the USA that is ELECTED, by the people of the county, and has highest jurisdiction, is the County Sherriff. According to him, the Sherriff can tell the FBI to leave, or come, or stay. I am not sure on that point.
He continued that the Sherriff to the north would NOT let this happen up there, and that is why Lavoy and his group was heading north. AND, that was why they were ambushed BEFORE they could cross the county line. He also said that they had, I believe he said 9 boxes full, of all the proof they needed from the refuge, concerning the uranium and such to prove the government had motives for wanting the land. (Could these boxes have been in the truck? My conjecture).
He also said then, that was Monday Feb. 1st, that they had shot him 9 times, and with todays info, that is accurate. He said it was Lavoy’s daughter in the truck, which may have meant foster child. (Later shouts again referred to her as his daughter).That Lavoy had left weapons at the refuge. He also said the GOVS had blocked access to the courthouse earlier, and he had to shove his way through, I believe this may have been when they went in to file the motion.
After talking, we looked backwards, and WHOA! There was now about an equal number of PATS, and it continued to grow as noon approached. There were now abot 200, flag waving, sign carrying, constitutionalists, and grew to I’d say 300. Local ranchers cruised through in their trucks pulling their horse trailers, more signs, flags and horns blasting.
Right around noon, the shouts began. First the GOVS. “GO HOME!”, and “YOU ARE NOT OUR VOICE”, were the first. Their signs were, “We Love the FBI”, “Go Home Militia”, “The 97% Don’t Want the 3%”, “We Support Our Sherriff”. Something about “Democracy” and “FBI Are Hunks”.
A lot of women, teens, and what appeared to me, old hippies with the Birkenstocks. They were up on the snow covered bank in front of the courthouse looking down towards the PATS. One of their last chants was, ” Break The Law, YOU PAY!”. Sad.
The Sherriff stayed inside, upstairs staring down from a second story, large glass window, a few people on either side. More looked out from above from different windows. There were police on hand, a contingent of State Troopers off to the side. A couple of news crews. Did not see any federal agents that I could identify.
The PATS soon heated up their own shouts. “Hands Up Don’t Shoot”, was one. Shouting “We Are Home”, over the militia part of the GOVS “Go Home Militia”, and “Thank God”, in answer to “You Are Not Our Voice.” Humorous and it also shut them up pretty quickly. There were other shouts and a lot of signs with pics of Lavoy and patriot slogans.
Demands were read aloud via bullhorn: Release the Hammonds. Release the Bundy’s. Remove the Sherriff. Release all the video WITH sound. Show the truck. Detain the shooters.
This went on for a couple of hours, mostly civil, although there were a couple of flare ups. I saw maybe 10 holstered side arms. You could not identify any “militia”. PPN may have been the ones with the bullhorn.
In answer to the “Go Home” shout, bullhorn guy asked each group to hold up their hands if a resident of Harney County. It was fairly even on both sides. One lady I talked to, 3rd or 4th generation Harney, said she knew most all of those on the other side. And that nearly every single one either worked for the BLM, FWS, were married to LEO’s, or some form of government job. They were paid to be there, she said.
My thoughts:
I am glad to have gone. I have read a lot, and really wanted to see if the people of Harney really wanted the militia gone. That depends on your view. If you work or depend on the government for your living, then yes, go. If you believe the government is out of control and overstepping their authority, then no, come and take a stand.
My main thought, my overwhelming sense of feeling was, this is SO much bigger than Harney County, and that THEY are not my voice! I AM home! This IS my home! My other main thought was, “How can you all be so blind!?”.
It was divided pretty evenly down the middle in regards to Harney residents. If say 300 residents showed up combined, roughly 10% of the population, the other 90% either couldn’t due to responsibilities, or found it not worth voicing their opinion.
Neither side will be able to convince the other that their view is off. That was apparent. And I can see their point, if I too, was satisfied and depended on the government for my well being.
The Sherriff, standing up there, unmoving. Shielded by glass. Like an overlord with his army out front to protect him, and his protected subjects spewing out the rhetoric. Seems like the disdain just permeated down. There were shared smirks and guffaws as they looked down on the clamoring peasantry below, spit and venom flowing from both sides. The LEO’s as well had the same smirks, and stood by with the attitude one takes when a small child throws a tantrum. Just get it done, get it out of your system so I can get back to the important.
The 40/60 differential in protesters (GOVS-PATS), my estimation, seems abnormally in line with the national employment. I’ve hear that the number of government employees in the USA is about 40%. The 10% involved and the 90% not, also would seem to be a valid estimation for this nation’s “conversations”. It also appears to be Left/Right, Dem/Rep as far as the division.
I don’t know the answers. I know I’m biased in my view.And I must say, the 6 hour drive back from that beautiful, barren, desolate country left me time to think. I felt discouraged. It feels like a battle that is going to continue long after I’m gone, and is definitely going against my ideals. It seems as though the deck is stacked too well, and our liberty and freedom is continuing to shrink. It seems that so many are content or unaware. The media highlights what it wants to be broadcast far and wide. Our founding father’s vision seems to be getting fainter and fainter every day.
But, I have kids, and they are going to have kids. So I caught myself. No, not yet. Not ever. I will not lie down, and I will not back down from the truth. We have the most beautiful document stating what is right, and what are our rights. And it is being shredded.
Thank you Stella. I appreciate your site and all of those here who continue on into the fray.
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Thank you for your on-the-ground report, derk. I’m sorry I took so long to approve it. I know that our regular readers here will appreciate seeing it.
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Thank you Derk, so it it is the townsfolk who work for the government that want the CfCF to stand down. I really appreciate your on the ground first hand account and it sounds spot on accurate.
Sheriff David Clarke put this all at the feet of David Ward. He also lays out very concisely why the Feds and the sheriff are wrong.
Radio address given before things turned deadly.
A Rational Case in Defense of Ammon Bundy and the Oregon Occupation: Sheriff David Clarke
“There is no working things out with this federal government…I’m through waiting for the next election… I don’t want it to come to armed conflict against the federal government…and that that county Sheriff didn’t stick up for the Hammonds in this situation, against this overbearing, overreaching federal government…its a travesty. Somebody had to do something!” – Sheriff David Clarke
I learned some new information. IMO Clarke hits the nail on the head. Unfortunately it is even worse than I thought.
Imagine if Harnet County had a sheriff like David Clarke.
Fair warning Glenn is going to try and sell you some gold during Clarke’s show. Also Clarke just reads an essay on civil obedience and the Oregon situation, written by David French, that many of you have may have already read.
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Derk’s first hand account puts this into sharp perspective.
Harney Sheriff THROWS OUT Reporter for Asking about Constitution! – #OregonFront
Wow. A community booing the Constitution and cheering the idea of throwing a man in jail because he dared to ask “What about the Constitution.”
When injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgqLdJf00bQ
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Yes, love David Clarke, thanks for posting. I have rarely seen a man of such integrity, conviction and morality such as him.
The maddening part is that most people either agree with, or don’t care/know about what the government is doing. They appear, to me, brainwashed. Foreign. I asked a lady up there on the other side, ” You back murderers?”. Her reply, from a woman whom I would judge as sweet, friendly, motherly, you know, she could of been a school teacher type, was “He deserved it”. Incredulous!
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Madness takes it toll.
People have lost the ability to think.
They have no idea that they are bringing about a regime that will show no loyalty to the faithful ignorant minions once the regime has established a foothold on the neck of every freedom endowed in us by our Creator and legally granted to us through our Constitution.
Let’s play who said it?
King George III or the Feds ?
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“[Every freedom] legally granted to us through our Constitution.”
The Constitution does not grant freedom; it recognizes the Rights endowed by our Creator and enumerates some of them.
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You are correct, sloppy use of words on my part.
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Monsters on Maple Street. We are officially living in the Twilite Zone.
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I think we see all around us how Hitler was able to do what he did.
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I’M KEEPING THIS SAME THREAD, BUT MOVING IT UP CLOSER TO THE TOP OF THE POSTS (LATE LAST NIGHT).
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4 holdout occupiers at Malheur wildlife refuge are indicted
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/crime/2016/02/04/oregon-standoff-leader-ammon-bundy-others-indicted/79808808/
16 indicted
The remaining occupiers are: David Fry, 27, of Blanchester, Ohio; Jeff Banta, 46, of Elko, Nevada; and Sean Anderson, 48, and Sandy Anderson, 47, a married couple from Riggins, Idaho.
(Indictment included in link)
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Funeral to draw large crowd in support of Oregon protester
The funeral for the man killed by law enforcement during the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge is expected to draw supporters from around the West to a small Utah town.
The events could draw up to 1,000 people, including many from Kanab and the nearby towns of Fredonia and Cane Beds, Arizona, said Sgt. Alan Alldredge of the Cane County Sheriff’s Office. Others are expected to come from Nevada and elsewhere in Arizona.
“They’ve kind of put the call out nationwide,” Alldredge said.
His office and the Utah Highway Patrol will be on hand to make sure the events are peaceful and orderly. Given the anti-federal sentiment expected among the crowd, Alldredge said local law enforcement agencies have pleaded with the FBI and other federal agents to stay away.
“We’ve kind of asked them to stay away, and they say they will,” Alldredge said.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/funeral-to-draw-large-crowd-in-support-of-oregon-protester/ar-BBp9hSI
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The last paragraph of the article just has me shaking my head:
The government says that once the occupation began, the group brandished firearms to keep officials from carrying out their duties, threatened violence and intimidated locals “to effectuate the goals of the conspiracy.”
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Is it legal to not allow a defendant to attend a court hearing?
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Something isn’t right.
1) Ammon said in his statement played by his attorney ( 🙄 ) that it was the lawful duty of the CfCF to protest by taking the stand they did at the MNWR
2) His attorney’s should not have played the tape of Ammon speaking.
3) I call bullish!t on “the process is working”
4) Ammon’s access to his attorney’s seems limited.
5) I know it is the the Feds, but how even the Feds can tie anything with Ammon’s incarceration and the restrictions thereof to the men currently at the MNWR is total malarkey. The court can make one of the contingencies of Ammon’s release that he not go within X feet of the MNWR, but to make any contingency of Ammon’s release on the behavior of people other than Ammon is poppycock. The court cannot make Ammon their negotiator.
6) I personally believe if Ammon is telling the men at the MNWR to go home it is because he knows that they are dead men.
7) The men at the MNWR have been indicted so they cannot go home. Ammon knows this and the men there know this.
8) My guess is Ammon is in solitary confinement for his own protection at his own request as he will meet an untimely death if he is put i the general population.
9) The best I can understand about Ammon (and the rest) not appearing in court is that they were indicted but not yet asked to enter a plea so the judge is doing legal fancy footwork.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Janice M. Stewart;
“When an indictment is returned, a defendant no longer has a right to the preliminary hearing,” the judge said. “No need for your client to appear.”
In other words it wasn’t a “hearing” to was a handing down of an indictment. A sealed indictment.
This is going to be one of the biggest F*Me trials of the century.
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Stand against the government and the Constitution doesn’t apply to you is the message they are sending.
They are also sending it to the citizens in the area, our Constitution does not give them the authority to search people and their property without a warrant, yet that is what they are doing. It does not give them the authority to throw people on their knees and stick guns in their faces and questioning them why they’re feeding animals.
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Cliven Bundy was arrested when he got off the plane in Oregon. According to the Bundy Ranch FB page as soon as he got off the plane he was surrounded by SWAT and FBI. He is being charged with interfering with a federal officer and weapons charges.
The four remaining at the refuge had agreed last night to turn themselves in this morning as long as they allowed Franklin Graham and Michele Fiore to meet them. So far haven’t heard if this took place.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/world/2016/02/11/nevada-rancher-cliven-bundy-arrested/80219266/
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There are also reports that Ammon and Pete Santilli were removed out of solitary confinement after thousands of phone calls.
The local farmers and ranchers in the area have been harassed, stopped and yanked out of their vehicles, searched and their vehicles searched for doing no more than trying to feed their cattle. One lady was doing no more than pulling her trailer loaded with a tractor. One man and his mother had guns stuck in their face while they were forced on their knees, their crime was trying to feed their cattle. Several that this happened to out there on that highway.
I won’t reveal their names although I know some websites are doing so which is causing many of them to lock down their FB accounts, but those I’ve read and talked to are terrified of what is going on, they’re fearful they are going to be shot while putting out hay.
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This site has a running update about what is going on.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/feb/11/oregon-standoff-militia-fbi-negotiations-live-coverage-oregon-malheur-wildlife-refuge
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I am at least pleased that there are so many eyes on the situation.
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Thanks for the updates, Lovely. Glad there are so many not letting this fade away.
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I’ll move this thread up, so it is easier to find.
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You cam listen live here:
They haven’t been taken yet.
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Can not cam.lol
I’m listening and the FBI forced the congresswoman to get off the phone, said they couldn’t talk to her with everyone listening.
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Michelle and Franklin are doing a good job of continuously talking these folks off the ledge.
I’m not real convinced of the stability of Sean, Sandy, or David. Their conversations with Michelle and Franklin give me a great deal of worry as do their Facebook posts.
I haven’t heard Jeff Banta speak yet or read any account of him.
God be with all of them.
May the guardian angels of all involved intercede as messengers of peace, calm and stability.
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I think they’re scared, with good reason and I think they feel a little abandoned, which I also understand.
Fear and anger will drive you to speak and act in ways you might not do normally.
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Fry is unstable. He just went on a rant about radical Americans being mean to Muslims and said that real Muslims do not practice Sharia Law.
Sean Anderson has a history that I am currently reading about but he has some issues from what I am seeing, hearing and have read.
I understand the anger but IMO Fry is not a representative of rational thought even when he is not angry.
Sandy is well versed but also on edge, seeing 2 crows as an omen when clear thinking is necessary for survival is a red flag. I’m glad Franklin and Michelle keep talking them down.
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I had to walk away and I’ve came back to David being psycho, saying he’s declared war. Did the others leave?
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The others have left. David sounded calm to me and some idiot I believe Hall started talking to him about how our founding fathers said that when the judges become corrupt they are only men and no longer true representatives of the government. She said a few other things like why was demanding your constitutional rights a crime.
If anyone dies it sits at the feet of Fry and whoever got him riled up. What a complete F* moron, she agitated him. If I know he is unbalanced by reading the internet this dumb ass should know he is unbalanced.
I am furious!
Sorry I wish I knew her exact words but as you know it is all happening in real time.
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What is Sandy’s heritage? There are people who see crows as an omen, owls hooting during the day a sign of death, etc.
I think all of them but David Fry can be reasoned with, him I think has some mental issues.
This lady really needs to hush, she’s not helping.
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Hall is making things worse she needs to be cut off. Let Franklin Grahm talk to him.
I don’t know Sandy’s heritage but I don’t think it was a cultural thing she said “you know what they call a flock of crows, a murder.”
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I heard them talking about it and I think it was just more a superstitious thing. Probably heard it her entire life. My Granny was always adamant about owls hooting during the day and I have to admit although I know it’s silly, because I heard it so much growing up I still hate to hear an owl during the day and I hear them at least once a day. lol
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She needs to hush and let Gavin do the talking, she’s yelling and making it worse. He needs to hear a calm voice.
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That dumb bitch KrisAne Hall (I believe) has antagonized the situation.
Fry was talking about coming out and she got him riled up with her questions. What a complete ass.
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Sorry I cannot tell if it was KrisAnne or Michelle but just moments ago she started talking about how the federal government lost its status as an authority when it stopped operating under the constitution. This is the wrong time to say that, it is the wrong time knowing what we know of Fry and knowing that there are men and women up there putting their lives on the line. I believe it was KrisAnne, but I’m not 100%.
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Fry is saying he’s killing himself and asking for a pizza. He needs someone who knows how to talk to him. This Hall lady needs to hush, she’s not helping.
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Oh my goodness now he wants pot.
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Sounds like he needs a tranquilizer.
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That is the danger anytime whether you’re fighting against abortion, terrorism, constitutional rights is having an unstable person to be drawn to you. This guy is obviously insane.
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For constitutional rights, I left it out. I’d hate for some troll to do to me what they’re doing to Trump for misspeaking. lol
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They need to let Franklin talk to him on a private line. Hall has no idea what she is doing, she is making it worse. Fry may not be reachable but Hall is making it worse.
Change the damn subject with him, suicide 101, talk quietly, get a promise from Fry that he will talk to you if he makes the decision to pull the trigger, get a promise and talk him down. He is so off the wall that their reasoning has no effect on him. they need to get Fry to believe someone understands him and is on his side.
This nonsense about Fry silencing God’s word is a bad approach. Fry believes he is hearing the pure word of God and now Hall tells him the only thing left to do is to walk out.
You never tell a suicidal person that they have only one option then they weigh that option against suicide. This woman needs to be shut down.
I am incredibly frustrated.
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She needs to be cut off the line, this is out of her league.
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I don’t give this long, Fry is making the decision that Hall and Gavin are working against him.
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They need to get a professional on the line to talk to him, they are trying to reason with him like he’s a rational person, he’s not rational.
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Do they not realize yet he’s insane? Those others there are lucky he didn’t harm them.
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They knew he was unbalanced IMO there is no way they did not know. If I was able to I would drag that idiot Hall off the phone with my bare hands 1) she is trying to rationalize with a mad man and she is telling him that he has no choice but to walk out and surrender to people that he does not trust. Suicide 101 lets look for other options.
That is the second time Hall told a suicidal man that he had no options.
Why is the FBI letting Hall continue? I have my own thoughts on that.
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I admit I haven’t paid much attention to the four left there. I’ve been paying more attention to the citizens around there. So I’m a little taken aback at how insane this guy is.
They may be in the same boat, but that lady has only made it worse.
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Lady, he has one movement and it’s his nutty movement in his head. Either get a professional to talk to him or offer him pot and pizza and lie to him and tell him
he’s not going to jail.
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He’s a Paulbot.
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You know, I was surprised when I went up to Burns on Feb. 1st for the protest, that several I talked to on the “militia” side liked Paul. His profession of small government and a constitutional government is what drew them. But then again, the more we talked they were just getting mostly MSM info on Trump, thought he’d be too aggressive. Go figure.
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Exactly they need to give him some pot and some pizza and lace the pot with some knock out drug. (I don’t know if such a drug exists that can be smoked but it would give Fry something to 1) wait for and not shoot himself in the head and 2) bring his level of mania down.
I do believe that he is talking to Franklin Grahm on another phone.
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Does he not have parents or loved ones who can talk to him?
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He surrendered. Fry asked the troopers/agents to all say Hallelujah! and he would come out and he did it.
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I hope they don’t throw him in jail, he needs to be sent to a mental hospital.
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He should be headed straight to a locked psych ward, I don’t know if their local prison has one or if he will have to be sent elsewhere.
Hall and Gavin both think they did something right. Gavin did as well as can be expected and deserves credit but Hall started Fry’s spiral with her “judges who are corrupt have no authority” quote just as Fry was getting ready to leave. She may have not been trying to agitate him but if she wasn’t she couldn’t have thought of a better phrase to get an unstable man in a high anxiety situation flipped into nutterville any quicker.
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I’m certainly not a professional but sometimes common sense needs to be used.
I would have treated him like a spooked horse, with a spooked horse if you allow yourself to be agitated and you raise your voice and yank their halter/reins/lead rope, they’re going to be more spooked. You need to talk in a calm voice, keep yourself under control and softly stroke them.
She took the freak out approach mixed with the I will out muscle you.
Thank goodness Graham or whomever was talking to him on the other line took the calm approach and she almost got him riled up again.
They both imho should have called a spade a spade after it was over and admitted it appears he has some mental issues and was on his own movement, not our movement.
I believe they both mean well and are both doing their own part to help wake up Americans and fight against the government, but imo it does less harm to just admit sometimes unstable people with their own demons are attracted to just movements. Trying to tie his craziness in with the rest of us allows those who call us crazy have someone to point out.
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Technically because Fry stated he was feeling suicidal most states would mandate a 48 – 72 hour hold in a psych ward.
This really was bad for patriots who are of sound mind and calling attention to the government overreaches that are crippling freedom in America.
Hal and Gavin did no one any good when they acted as if Fry was only an upset patriot.
The FBI let this go on and go public for as long as it did for a reason.
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I think he just surrendered.
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More indictments handed down.
And Cliven is going to get hit with the kitchen sink.
Article on Cliven Bundy arrest including criminal complaint.
http://koin.com/2016/02/11/cliven-bundy-to-appear-in-portland-court/
Cliven Bundy to appear in US court in Portland
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If you want to know why there are so many Harney County residents welcoming the federal takeover of their land and disregarding the Constitution.
Have a peek;
Industry Employment Trends: Total nonfarm payroll employment in Harney County peaked in 1999 but has largely fallen off since then. By 2012, the nonfarm job count was down to its lowest level since 1984. Preliminary figures for 2013 indicate that employment again inched down another notch or two for the year.
Harney County’s industry structure once featured several hundred manufacturing workers producing primarily wood products, but the factory sector today claims no more than 10 jobs.
The county’s largest job category nowadays is government , but employment in even that industry has been trending downward.
https://www.qualityinfo.org/-/harney-county-economic-profile
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Was at the Guardian reading their updates. One is of the county counting their costs, the Indians doing the same, FWS doing same at the refuge, so they can claim a huge loss and demand reparations. Then there’s the pic of the LEO’s blocking all of the roads back to Burns as a convoy of vehicles escorts the 4 holdouts in. A report on the elder Bundy being arrested and charged in Portland.
As a man said before, “It’s not like these people didn’t already have these jobs and all of this equipment, they didn’t go out and hire new people and buy new stuff.” Yet they will run up the “costs” as much as they possibly can. They will hold these people liable, and take everything that they own, and leave them broke, and broken. They will be put on display as to what happens when you step out of line.
The show of force, I mean really, a SWAT team to arrest a 74 year man at the airport? He told everyone that he was coming up there. I’m sure TSA screened him pre-flight, and yet a team of specially trained and highly armed officers was needed to apprehend this old man?
Blocking all of the roads back to Burns, really? A convoy of vehicles to escort the 4 broken down “militia” was a necessity? Did they anticipate some group of rustlers swooping in and overpowering them? Were the Blackhawks flying cover as well?
Killing Lavoy. Actually forcing the issue, and then using excessive force in shooting down a man with his hands actually up. Blood had to be spilled it appears.
Planting fake “militia” to stir up agitation amongst the locals, hiding truth revealing reports. Media blackout? There is no one talking about this. There is so much WRONG here, yet no major coverage. No high priced lawyers rushing in to aid these folks.
It is a show of force. Do not mess with us. Do not act out or we will break you. Kill you actually. We are the government. We are in control. Now shush up and go back to your grovel, before we do it to you.
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Did you read my post today? – https://stellasplace1.com/2016/02/11/how-environmental-extremism-has-revived-the-sagebrush-rebellion-2/
I gave an analogy to my staff about my philosophy of enforcement, and I think it was probably a little crude and maybe not appropriate for the meeting but I’ll go ahead and tell you what I said. It was kind of like how the Romans used to conquer little villages in the Mediterranean. They’d go into a little Turkish town somewhere, they’d find the first five guys they saw and they would crucify them. And then you know that town was really easy to manage for the next few years. And so you make examples out of people who are in this case not compliant with the law. Find people who are not compliant with the law, and you hit them as hard as you can and you make examples out of them, and there is a deterrent effect there. And, companies that are smart see that, they don’t want to play that game, and they decide at that point that it’s time to clean up.
That’s how they roll.
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No, but will right now, thanks.
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Yep. There is no doubt that the CfCF will be charged with multiple felonies.
They will be charged obscene amounts of money for destroying “irreplaceable priceless artifacts”
FBI Deploying Art Crime Team to Investigate If Militants Desecrated Paiute Graves
http://www.wweek.com/2016/02/11/fbi-deploying-art-crime-team-to-investigate-if-militants-desecrated-paiute-graves/
And you are right some of this is payback for the original Bundy standoff with the feds.
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/community-reactions-malheur-refuge-occupation-end/
2:34 p.m. Congressman Peter DaFazio, a Democrat, expressed his support for the arrest of Cliven Bundy after the Nevada rancher came to Portland on behalf of his sons.
“I am very pleased that the federal authorities finally acted to arrest Mr. Bundy. Unlike tens of thousands of ranchers across the West who get an incredibly sweet deal on federal lands, he’s refused to pay his fees, grazed illegally in protected habitat and threatened federal agents himself and with his friends with guns. He should have been prosecuted two years ago and Malheur wouldn’t have happened. But he thought he had a way forward and he taught his son, ‘Pull out the guns, the feds back down.’ Well, finally, the feds didn’t back down.”
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On my way back from Burns, stopped at a Rest Area. Beautiful country, and I was taking it in and read those signs they have telling you about the area and habitat. Well now, if one of them was about the grass and sage, and how that it would become matted and of no use for wildlife if not for, FIRES and GRAZING!!! Couldn’t believe it.
I have pics, videos, but have yet to master getting them off computer to here. I got posting links down, but for some reason can’t do the others.
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In order to share photos or videos, you need to save them to the internet. One way is to open an account with one of the photo sharing services, like Photobucket. You can get a free account.
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Thanks. I will try.
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http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/derksutton/media/IMG_0923_zpsdg9zyurh.jpg.html
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Above is the photo of the sign at the rest stop. Learnin’ here, need to post description.
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Derk please go make your photobucket private.
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Thanks, more lernin’ to do. I’ve read there is a way to just make photo appear and not link, I think take off the html back to the jpg?
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Click on the picture that you want to post, to the far right of the picture there will be several options for you to click on and copy. Click the one which reads “direct link” that should copy the picture then just paste it like you would a link.
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Good job.
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http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u486/derksutton/IMG_0953_zpssp3qgxgx.jpg?t=1455168151?481
Pic of lake and buttes in Southwest Oregon
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Woo hoo! You did it! Beautiful picture 🙂
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Not the one I really wanted, but yes, it made it. Now I can’t get it to do it again. Thanks, Lovely for the help, you too Stella. Gotta go to sleep, G’night all
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Yes. Only read the first half to the picture parts this morning, was late getting up, but WHOA!! They actually admit that this how it is done. As Tex said, it makes your blood boil!
And now these people WILL be crucified. And that will be broadcast, you can bet on it.
You know, it amazes me that the “militia” acted so civilly, and yet are portrayed as the outlaws, gun mongers, disruptive heathens, when in fact it is the total opposite.
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I think Cliven’s face tells a thousand stories. I can not look at him without crying.
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This has me really down in the dumps. For once it seemed as if someone had finally really won, it had given hope to so many who have been there or are there and to those of us who fear our time is coming.
A lot of people had became aware and many willing to fight. I fear now many folks will go back to their lives and forget about it, others will now be too scared to speak out or do anything, others will cheer that the evil ranchers were put in their place.
I know tonight there is a rancher and his wife not sleeping well who are in a fight for their very survival and see this and know there won’t be people riding in to help them fight an enemy who is too strong for them to fight on their own.
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I agree Michelle, it is very depressing.
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https://www.facebook.com/les.zaitz?fref=nf
Les Zaitz talking in a round about way about the lid that is trying to kept on the reality of what is happening to ranchers.
I never heard of Zaitz before the MWR incident, he seems to be a local reporter.
When a sheriff sends you a message he’s looking into “legal action” because of your reporting, that gets your attention. And Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer did just that on Monday in a move unprecedented in my 40+ years as a journalist. He asked the Grant County district attorney, Jim Carpenter, to let me know he wouldn’t talk to me for an upcoming story. According to the note from the DA, the sheriff said he had told me not to use his personal email, personal cellphone or home phone to reach him. “I’ve been asked if there is any legal action that can be taken when he is contacted using his personal/private cell number, home number or e-mail. I would prefer not to delve into that,” the DA wrote.
So, what happened? In my career, I’ve always made a determined effort to get questions to those I’m writing about – to give them a fair and full opportunity to provide the truth and explanations as they see fit. I go the extra step of providing excerpts from a story draft for review – done in an effort to show the topic of the story what’s about to be published and ask for a flag of any inaccuracy. This was done with Sheriff Palmer, using email, as I prepared a story about his dealings with armed militants and his public conduct. He received 36 written questions. When he didn’t address them, he was provided 26 statements that would appear in the story and asked to identify anything inaccurate. He was emailed, called and texted to ensure he was aware of that opportunity.
These efforts prompted the email to me from the DA: “I am contacting you as the Grant County District Attorney, at Sheriff Glenn Palmer’s request. Palmer indicates that you have been attempting to contact him through various means, including his personal/private e-mail, cell phone and home phone. Palmer further indicates that he has advised you not to use these means to contact him.”
About that email: the sheriff lists it on his office website for public contact. Even before the DA’s note, I advised the sheriff I was using that email for that reason. The sheriff responded to me: “I did not tell you to stop using this email account.”
As for his home telephone, which is publicly listed, he never told me not to call there. I called once, leaving one message. He complained about contact on his personal cell phone, but it is the cell number he regularly provides the public to contact him. He got one text message from me.
I share all this because Palmer’s reference to “legal action” – a message he wanted the local prosecutor to deliver – is chilling. Mr. Carpenter, the district attorney, said the sheriff did not ask him to consider prosecution, so the “legal action” the sheriff had in mind is unclear. Mr. Carpenter didn’t mention it, but there is an Oregon law that makes telephonic harassment a misdemeanor crime, as a couple of other prosecutors alerted me. I am challenged to judge how a professional journalist exercising his First Amendment rights could be guilty of a crime for trying to get a public official to discuss public business.
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From what I’ve heard and read, Sherriff Grant was supposed to have a “sympathetic ear”, and that LaVoy was heading up his way when killed. Seems as though things have changed a bit now. HMMMM
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The feds have their jackboots on the throat of any and all dissenters.
Oregon standoff: Sheriff’s stance in LaVoy Finicum shooting draws outrage
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/oregon_standoff_sheriffs_stanc.html
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I was wrong about Les. Palmer is fighting the good fight and IMO he saw Les as a Federal sympathizer. I don’t have time right now to gather my thoughts or findings coherently but it looks like Palmer is being railroaded by Les and the Feds.
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I linked a long time ago at CTH to range magazine, it’s one of the best online publications I know of that gives some behind the scenes looks and names of some of the people destroying our country. Just remember though when you read this particular article and others that it’s all a wink and a nod, because the government works hand in hand with these people. They barely even make an appearance of actually fighting these lawsuits, then these people get the money, taxpayers money to move along and destroy another life.
I’ve said for many years we need to learn how to fight like they do. We all see the ads of the poor little puppies and kittens and the barren land that supposedly the evil loggers, oil companies and ranchers cause. We need the ads showing the destruction to human lives, we need to turn these people into the enemies they are, like they turn good people into. We need to file the lawsuits they file, because they are endangering human lives. We’ve been on defense for over 30 years while they’ve been on offense. We have to find a way to turn the tables and change the minds of people that a human life is more important than a plant or a tree or some bird.
http://www.rangemagazine.com/archives/stories/winter99/playing_outside_the_rules.htm
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Oregon “Stand-off” – What you are NOT being told but need to know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu8qVJFGPEA&feature=youtu.be
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Wasn’t sure where to put this, hope this is right rather than the open thread.
“In Oregon, the state House passed a bill last week allowing the withholding of an officer’s name in a police shooting for 90 days if a judge finds there is a credible threat to the officer. This followed the killing of a protester from the Malheur wildlife refuge.”
I didn’t realize they had done that.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/secret-police-virginia-considers-bill-to-withhold-all-officers%E2%80%99-names/ar-BBpWtvq
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/25-plead-not-guilty-in-standoff-at-the-oregon-wildlife-refuge/ar-BBpXO6P
Interesting story.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/house-republicans-seek-to-open-up-national-forests-to-mining-and-logging/ar-BBpWMYr
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I’ve walked away from this some Tessa 😦 after I read about them trying to bring down Sheriff Palmer I had to take a break. I’ll look at your links.
I have a feeling that this is a skirmish in a very long war. The feds have made the ranchers feel as if they have nothing less to lose, honestly I don’t see much of a difference between the BLM and the mafia, one is just more openly sanctioned by the government than the other.
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