General Discussion, Tuesday, January 29, 2019

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129 Responses to General Discussion, Tuesday, January 29, 2019

  1. Lucille says:

    Good morning, Tuesday, thanks for coming…

    Liked by 5 people

  2. Lucille says:

    Why Do You Look to Others To Tell You What to Think?
    Saturday, January 26, 2019 – By Thomas Wictor
    https://www.quodverum.com/2019/01/26/why-do-you-look-to-others.html

    Liked by 5 people

    • rheavolans says:

      Okay. I agree. But in the interest of total disclosure, I spent a good portion of my time back when I first became a Conservative on Gateway Pundit’s blog, reading the comments section to figure out what I should think about an issue.

      When you first learn something, or are growing in something – I would not call myself a full-fledged Conservative back during that time – in my experience, you will end up relying on others to tell you what to think.

      The thing is that eventually you have to stop doing that and start thinking for yourself. Me, I stopped doing it when I was cut off from all of my usual news sources but got to listen to cable news sobbing about the murder of a poor black chile named… Trayvon Martin. And then I learned that I didn’t need the blogosphere to think for me. I knew the answer. (And I was right: cable news was lying in their version of events.)

      So I guess that’s a long way of saying relying on others as Wictor describes is a growth issue. More people need to work on that personal growth.

      Liked by 3 people

  3. czarowniczy says:

    I took my old dog Daisy to the vets today, wanted him to check a few lipomas and do a blood/kidney/liver panel just to be safe. While we were waiting a guy came in with his new B&W Springer Spaniel pup – about 8 weeks old.
    It’s fun to see a pup that young again, it wants to go out and meet other people and dogs but it’s afraid to leave its boss. Daisy was lying down by me, making come hither noises to the pup, the pup would step out a few feet then rush back under its owner’s chair. I finally got down and put my hand out and both Daisy and the pup sloooooowly came over. There was all 90ish pounds of her and the 1-poundish of the Springer, Daisy’s just ever so gently shiffing and nuzzling it.
    I was paying our bill as the vet called the guy in, he had to come over an pick the pup up, it didn’t want to leave Daisy. As he carried it to the vet’s room the pup was craning it neck around the guy’s arm getting one last look at Daisy. Sometimes you forget just how good a citizen your dog is.

    Liked by 10 people

  4. stella says:

    Over on the thread, “A Sad Day In New York State”, Col. Ken says:

    New Liver is working very well. Will fill everyone in within the week. My hands are very shaky and not steady

    Liked by 11 people

  5. nyetneetot says:

    Mornin’ stella! (Smiter of those that ought to be smote) 😎 🍸 (Long Island Iced Tea)
    Mornin’ WeeWeed! (Master Mixologist Extrodinare) 😎 🍸 (Old Fashioned)
    Mornin’ Menagerie! 😎 |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| (Jack Daniels – Single Barrel )
    Mornin’ Ad rem! (Queen Felis catus) 🐱 🍸 (Flaming Lamborghini)
    Mornin’ Sharon! 😎 🍸 🍸 (earthquake)
    Mornin’ ytz4mee! 😎 🍸 (cosmopolitan)
    Mornin’ waltzingmtilda! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (white wine and perrier)
    Mornin’ partyzantski! πŸ™‚ |_| (Tom Collins)
    Mornin’ texan59! πŸ™‚ |_| (Black & Tan)
    Mornin’ ZurichMike! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (fuzzy navel)
    Mornin’ Col.(R) Ken! (hand salute) πŸ™‚ |_| (Boilermaker)
    Mornin’ czarina33! (aka czarina) πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Lynchburg Lemonade)
    Mornin’ czarowniczy! πŸ™‚ |_| (Wild Turkey Rare Breed)
    Mornin’ letjusticeprevail2014! πŸ™‚ |_| (Irish Car Bomb)
    Mornin’ Patriot1783-ctdar! (aka “ctdar”) πŸ™‚ 🍸 (grasshopper)
    Mornin’ tessa50! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (flaming volcano)
    Mornin’ waltzingmtilda! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (sidecar)
    Mornin’ varsityward! πŸ™‚ |_| (Godfather)
    Mornin’ MaryfromMarin! πŸ˜€ |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| (Mortlach)
    Mornin’ Wooly Covfefe! (aka “Wooly Phlox” aka “taqiyyologist”) πŸ™‚ |_| (Roy Rogers)
    Mornin’ Howie! (aka “doodahdaze”) πŸ™‚ |_| (Classic Daiquiri)
    Mornin’ TwoLaine! πŸ™‚ |_| (Gin & Tonic)
    Mornin’ Sha! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Lemon Drop)
    Mornin’ BigMamaTEA! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Harvey Wallbanger)
    Mornin’ cetera5! (aka “Cetera”) πŸ™‚ |_| (Blackberry wine)
    Mornin’ The Tundra PA! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Gentleman Jack Whiskey Sling)
    Mornin’ lovely! πŸ™‚ |_| (Backdraft)
    Mornin’ michellc! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Salty dog)
    Mornin’ auscitizenmom! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Kiss on the Lips)
    Mornin’ Margaret-Ann! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (White Russian)
    Mornin’ Auntie Lib! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Tom and Jerry)
    Mornin’ holly100! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Jack & Coke)
    Mornin’ Pam! πŸ™‚ (Not even water)
    Mornin’ Ms.Tee! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Mojito)
    Mornin’ koolkosherkitchen! πŸ™‚ 🍸 🍸 (Cuba Libre)
    Mornin’ ImpeachEmAll πŸ™‚ |_| (Flaming Dr. Pepper)
    Mornin’ Monroe! πŸ™‚ |_| (Stinger)
    Mornin’ Les! πŸ™‚ |_| (Rusty Nail)
    Mornin’ shiloh1973! πŸ™‚ |_| (Jack Daniels)
    Mornin’ TexasRanger! πŸ™‚ |_| (Whiskey Smash)
    Mornin’ Ziiggii! πŸ™‚ |_| (B52)
    Mornin’ oldiadguy! πŸ™‚ |_| (Rum & Coke)
    Mornin’ smiley! (“stuck in spambucket”) πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Spanish coffee)
    Mornin’ derk! (β€œStellars”) πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Kamikaze)
    Mornin’ Jacqueline Taylor Robson πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Shirley Temple)
    Mornin’ facebkwallflower! πŸ™‚ |_| (Night Train Express)
    Mornin’ Ms. Cindy! (aka “Ms Cynlynn” aka “ms cynlynn”) πŸ™‚ 🍸 (1970 ducru beaucaillou)
    Mornin’ sandandsea2015! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (1961 ChΓ’teau Montrose)
    Mornin’ amwick! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Blue motorcycle)
    Mornin’ hocuspocus13! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (1970 Chateau Latour)
    Mornin’ Sloth1963! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (1971 Moulin Touchais)
    Mornin’ MTeresa! (Ex-lurker) πŸ™‚ |_| (Albanian Raki Moskat)
    Mornin’ rheavolans! (aka “Rhea Salacia Volans”) πŸ™‚ |_| (Hot Buttered Rum)
    Mornin’ joshua! πŸ™‚ |_| (Mudslide)
    Mornin’ John Denney! πŸ™‚ |_| (RumChata)
    Mornin’ litenmaus! πŸ™‚ |_| (Stolichnaya elit, no ice)
    Mornin’ kinthenorthwest! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (A Lonely Island Lost in the Middle of a Foggy Sea)
    Mornin’ TwoLaine! πŸ™‚ |_| (Smoking Bishop)
    Mornin’ patternpuzzler! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Old Lady)
    Mornin’ SenatssekretΓ€r FREISTAAT DANZIG! πŸ™‚ |_| (Red Russian)
    Mornin’ G-d&Country! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Blind Russian)
    Mornin’ Gary! πŸ™‚ |_| (Yuengling)
    Mornin’ valeriecurren! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Flaming Sambuca)
    Mornin’ Lucille! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Peach Schnapps)
    Mornin’ Lburg! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Lburg lemonade)
    Mornin’ davidhuntpe! πŸ™‚ |_| (Baileys Irish Cream on the rocks)
    Mornin’ skipper1961! πŸ™‚ |_| (Brompton’s Cocktail – No cherry, no umbrella, no plastic monkey)
    Mornin’ mightyconservative! πŸ™‚ |_| (Benjamin Franklin’s clarified milk punch)
    Mornin’ NC Nana! πŸ™‚ 🍸 (Beautiful)
    Mornin’ whiners and complainers! πŸ˜› (No drink for you!)
    Mornin’ to people posting that I missed. 😳
    Mornin’ to all you lurkers! πŸ˜•

    Also just in case someday; mornin’ to Elvis Chupacabra, F.D.R. in Hell and sundance! :mrgreen:

    Breakfast!

    NEW and IMPROVED breakfast with extra bacon for ZurichMike!

    Cinnamon rolls for coffee!

    Liked by 6 people

  6. lovely says:

    10 beautiful things about life.

    1) BuzzFeed is not planning on paying out vacation days to laid off workers (outside of CA, where it’s state law). Some people had many days, especially essential staff who worked weekends and holidays in exchange for extra comp days.__Katie Notopoulos

    Not nice of Buzzfeed but that is exactly who these folks worked for an immoral rag. So …..

    2 )

    3) Howard Schultz is giving the Liberals fits.

    4) Federal Panel Of Judges Dismisses All 83 Ethics Complaints Against Brett Kavanaugh.

    5) I don’t know why but this picture captivates me.

    6 ) Brandon Straka and the #Walkaway movement.

    7) Vashon Island Bike Tree

    There is debate on whether this is a hoax or not. It is neat esthetic any which way.

    8)In the beautiful Midwest, windchill temperatures are reaching minus 60 degrees, the coldest ever recorded. In coming days, expected to get even colder. People can’t last outside even for minutes. What the hell is going on with Global Warming? Please come back fast, we need you!__President Donald Trump

    9 )Homemade Mac and cheese.

    10) The State of the Union Address is back on πŸ™‚ . (Hat tip to Stella πŸ™‚ ) .

    Liked by 6 people

  7. Menagerie says:

    Good morning y’all. A little snow is coming around here, and unfortunately, perhaps a lot of ice. It’s going to rain first, and temps are dropping all day and into tomorrow. I went past two grocery stores on my way home yesterday and you couldn’t have parked a toothpick in the lots. πŸ˜€

    Stay warm, especially you lovely.

    Liked by 6 people

  8. WeeWeed says:

    Mornin’ kids!

    Liked by 8 people

  9. stella says:

    Seen on Facebook (H/T Clarice F)

    From a poster on another site: My wife “hates politics”, “hates the bickering”, and wonders why I won’t allow the News to be on during cocktails and why I spend time with my friends here.

    Then last week she read about the NY Abortion Bill and mentioned it to me. I made sure she knew about the fundamental four or five HUGE changes in that bill, and then I explained to her what nobody has connected. Says me…well if anybody permitted by the State can perform a no questions asked abortion up to 24 weeks, and that same “nail salon tech with a state abortion certificate” can perform an abortion on a nine month baby if in THAT person’s opinion the mother will be better off…and then since the abortionist no longer has a duty to provide medical attention to a live baby who survives the abortion and it can be left to die…and if we learned one thing from the news about Planned PArenthood about how much money can be made by selling tissues and cells from aborted fetuses…can you imaging the industry that NY can now have selling working fully functioning organs from full term babies which can be carved up and sold for parts.

    She burst into tears. Literally.

    Liked by 4 people

  10. stella says:

    More on the NY abortion law, from Facebook:

    A scientist friend’s take on the NY abortion law:

    This news is written in shock. The reason may not be obvious to those who are unaware of the medical evidence regarding conscious fetuses and perhaps emergent conscious embryos.

    This news just hit me, I managed to overlook it yesterday, when the NY State Legislature announced legalizing abortion UNTIL birth WITHOUT requirement for MD supervision.

    Here is the reason why this legal act raises a very real danger of de facto and de jure genocide.

    Somewhere between three weeks after conception, when neural crest cells arise and begin to function, and the third trimester of gestation, with considerable variability, sensory consciousness arises in utero.

    This has been known for a very long time in medicine and by lay persons involved in assisting in birth.

    The traditional time of the “quickening” in pregnancy is when the mother feels the baby “kicking,” and when the baby in utero seems to respond to the mother’s singing and moving, even intermittently.

    This is as good a sign as any, but now of course we have a huge array of medical instruments to pick up earlier signs of cortical activity that will soon lead to a clearly conscious sensory cortex in the emerging baby.

    There may be no precise sign posts for the emergence of sensory consciousness — which implies both pain perception and feelings of comfort, joy, pleasure and love in the cortical anterior insula. Somewhere before or after the third trimester consciousness is very likely to emerge.

    The evidence on that is now beyond serious empirical question.

    Because nobody — NOBODY — really knows the decisions mothers and their unqualified advisors are taking about abortion decisions, there must be a probability distribution. We know that for decades Planned Parenthood and its slavish media have encouraged girls and women to believe in a very late emergence of conscious experiences in babies. This ideological meme is almost certainly mendacious and false, and it is driven by the same ideology that promoted racial abortions during the Woodrow Wilson period of the Progressive Era. Woodrow Wilson was that rare bird, a genuine, passionate racist college president (of Princeton U) who was convinced that black babies should be aborted. Planned Parenthood has its roots in that time and in its blind ideology.

    We know that one mass murdering “abortion doctor” has been killing black African-American babies AFTER birth in a way I will not describe.

    He has now been convicted and sent to prison for life, although I would have preferred giving him the fate he apparently liked to inflict on living babies. Some people are so evil they deserve pre-emptive imprisonment.

    The New York Legislature has now legalized third-trimester abortions without medical supervision.

    This comes after decades of the highly concentrated mass media blinding their audiences to the ethical dilemmas of abortion, even after the rise of sensory consciousness, a date that we do not know with perfect safety. But real medical science is getting better on identifying conscious babies in utero.

    In normal birth, the weight of evidence very strongly suggests that babies are entirely conscious. There are exceptions of course for still-born babies, and perhaps for babies that are irreversibly ill.

    Medical people privately have a deep understanding of these matters, but women have now been taught via the ignorant public media to believe there is NO ethical dilemma whatsoever. This is an obvious falsehood. There are many great dilemmas in life, and if someone is taught otherwise they can become handicapped for life. “We” the mass culture has brought up such generations of ignoramuses.

    Just as in the case of marijuana, which is far more dangerous than the mass media pretend, especially for a sub-group of adolescent boys, our over-concentrated media never tell the truth.

    This is just like Pravda and Isztvestiya in the USSR and China, which also promoted massive abortion at certain times.

    In China today there is a huge imbalance between young men and women, because girl babies were routinely aborted under the “One Child per family” population control policy. This implied genocidal killing of conscious babies in utero, because of the statistical distribution of the time of abortions. Chinese government has a very long history of ruthless killings, which are usually rationalized for the greater good of society.

    Unless the third trimester criterion (OR earlier) is rigorously enforced by modern medical profession, the chances of killing conscious babies in extreme pain and distress is VERY HIGH.

    If we had perfect medical criteria for sensory consciousness (including early pain perception in utero) we might be able to determine a more precise date.

    But in the absence of certain knowledge, medical people have long taken the Hippocratic Oath: FIRST, DO NO HARM.

    That Oath has of course been undermined in the last several decades, and I cannot believe that that has been done in ignorance. It coincides with the rise of centralized socialized medicine in Europe and Canada, and perhaps to some extent in the United States under ObamaCare.

    About 10 years ago Steven Laureys, MD, PhD, an excellent coma researcher in Belgium, invited the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness, of which I was the first president, to Antwerp, where we had a day dedicated to coma science.

    Steve and colleagues have done outstanding research to identify “true” (unconscious) coma, and distinguish it from “locked-in” syndrome, where the patient is conscious but paralyzed, and is therefore locked in to a conscious condition while s/he is being treated surgically or simply sent to the morgue to die.

    During Steve’s Coma Day a Belgian physician who runs a terminal care facility told us in no uncertain terms that his budget allowed for three weeks for patients in BEHAVIORAL coma (simply unresponsiveness, such as happens with paralysis) to be fed intravenously, and then he would routinely ship them to the morgue, come hell or high water.

    I half-understood what he was saying, but I did not realize the full significance, because I don’t know enough about actual terminal care in social-democratic Europe.

    That point has become more than obvious today with the UK NHS “Liverpool Pathway” for allegedly terminal patients who do not have enough brownie points (called QALI’s) to deserve taxpayer-funded care.

    In the UK I believe it is technically illegal for families to pay extra for patient care if they believe their loved ones are still alive, which is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.vThe legal catch is that any British patients can go to Singapore or the United States to get first-rate medical care, either by paying the cost, or perhaps for some legitimate reasons, such as research or for compassionate reasons. I do know that UK Prime Minister Theresa May refused openly to allow a young child near death to be treated free of charge, I believe at the Vatican hospital for children, which offered to provide free care that is no longer allowed by the UK NHS.

    British medical doctors have declared very plainly that in seriously ill patients, the time and exactly causation of death is NOT predictable on an individual basis, just on average. This inevitably means that bureaucrats who only look at averages are consigning potentially surviving patients to a very certain death. That is the precise logic of their declared legal position.

    We do know much more today about TRUE coma, TRULY irreversible medical conditions, and perhaps even about the onset of sensory consciousness and pain/distress in utero. Today, cases of behavioral BUT NOT brain coma can be rescued, and they can even communicate via eye moment techology that is fairly cheap and very practical.

    There is no truth whatsoever to the philosophical fantasy that babies and children are “not really” conscious persons until some arbitrary date decided by utterly ignorant and frequently Kapo-syndrome philosophers.

    Conscious pain perception arises during gestation, and it may be late in the second trimester, but I simply do not know, because I must defer to excellent medical researchers on that point.

    What I believe with little empirical doubt is that the New York Legislature has just legalized conscious fetal murder on a potentially very large scale, WITHOUT competent medical supervision. The latter point strongly suggests that they don’t want to hear the truth from highly qualified MD’s.

    This is no longer a theoretical debate.

    This is legalized genocide.

    I do hate to think that, but the evidence I know, though never enough, has now flipped in that direction.

    I would be happy to stand corrected by medical people, of course, and by brain scientists. I do not want to hear from philosophers who have not studied the best empirical literature.

    This is no longer a matter of guesswork, of speculation, or of completely arbitrary interference by utterly ignorant “ethicists”.

    I am eager to hear from qualified medical people and scientists.

    I certainly don’t claim to know more than others.

    This is an emergency message, and I would welcome reasoned and ethical feedback, of course. If I am wrong I would be the first to celebrate, and of course I will notify whoever would like to be notified. I would LOVE to be wrong.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. TOG&C says:

    Morning Everyone
    Gramps is getting in on the snowball fight today. Painting by J F Kernan:

    Here is a beatiful place for a walk (or snowball fight πŸ˜‰ ) Winter Glow by Clyde Aspevig:

    Liked by 4 people

  12. stella says:

    Liked by 1 person

    • Lucille says:

      Blessing cars is a monstrous waste of time considering his “Great Commission” as a Christian received from Christ Himself has nothing to do with such worldly inanimate things.

      Who sets the Pope’s calendar? To whoever that is, the question needs to be asked, “What does this have to do with going into all the world and preaching the Gospel to all (Matthew 28:19-20)?” This could easily be accomplished by using available technology such as a television program broadcast via every accessible means.

      Very sad, indeed…and, frankly, just a tad dumb.

      Liked by 4 people

  13. Lucille says:


    Squirrels put their groceries away just like we do! Study finds they organize stashes of nuts by variety, quality and even preference
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4882038/Squirrels-organize-stashes-nuts-variety.html

    I haven’t received verification for this, but I’ve heard they also pray over meals…

    Liked by 4 people

  14. stella says:

    This message is from Wooly, who posted this at CTH instead of here, by mistake:

    Hello, Stellars!

    Guess what? I’m a Floridian, now!

    To rewind a bit. On January 8, I fell to the floor in pain and called 911. They got here quick, put me under general anesthesia, and took me to Bronson South Haven, where I got a CT scan. They airlifted me to Bronson Kalamazoo, where I was in surgery for a perforated peptic ulcer for three and a half hours. Then I spent the week there suffering delusions and hallucinations for five of those days, in indescribable pain and no food or water, just an IV saline drip. I seem to remember the first 4 or five days only in bits and cloudy pieces. Alcohol withdrawal isn’t fun for anyone, including the five nurses I remember trying to fight off.

    I spent 9 days at Mary Free Bed, a physical rehab hospital in Grand Rapids, and was released on the 25th. We went to South Haven, me having been evicted from my apartment of 12 years while I was at MFB, loaded up all my possessions into a Chevy Suburban, and drove for three days to FL.
    My dad and mom asked me to come and live with them until I could get on my feet. It was time for a big change of scenery.

    Doc says I can never drink again. I have no problem with that at all. My stomach was digesting itself. When it finally blew out on the 8th, it was a direct result of 8 years of beer, then wine, then vodka, then 99 Bananas, Watermelons, and other all-alcohol-diet ideas. I was drinking myself to death, and nearly did. Had there been anything other than vodka in my belly, I would have gone septic. They did laporoscopic stitching to my stomach at Bronson.

    So, yeah, I’m on the rebound, and never touching alcohol again. Right now working on getting Medicaid, a driver’s license, and all the other things one must do to settle in a new place. That new place is Paisley, FL, right up the same road my paternal grandparents used to live. It’s idyllic and remote. It’s been quite a strange ride.

    Liked by 4 people

  15. lovely says:

    Hold the phone! Why have I never seen one of these before?

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Lucille says:

    REP. TLAIB’S ANTISEMITISM PROBLEM IS GETTING WORSE
    January 29, 2019 Daniel Greenfield
    https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/272717/rep-tlaibs-antisemitism-problem-getting-worse-daniel-greenfield

    Liked by 2 people

  17. auscitizenmom says:

    lilbirdee12’s prayer:

    Our Heavenly Father, Your children come to you tonight to ask for healing and peace throughout our country so that we may return to being One Nation Under God. Guide us to be leaders in Your Kingdom, spreading Your Love and Salvation to all. Forgive us our sins and deliver us from evil.

    Lord, we ask for a blanket of protection over all our troops and law enforcement who serve to defend and protect us. Bless our representatives with the strength and wisdom they need to achieve the path You have chosen for us.

    Please place Your Guardian Angels of Protection around Donald Trump and Mike Pence and their families as they seek to lead America back to You.

    Grant us patience, Lord, as the evil ones try to anger us and cause us to fall.
    Spread blessings over Israel and Netanyahu.

    We humbly ask that You please comfort those who are grieving and in pain.
    Thank you Father, for Your Love and the gift of Life.

    In Jesus name, we pray. Amen.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. auscitizenmom says:

    A prayer for Justice Kavanaugh and Col. Flynn:

    Prayer to St. Michael

    St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle;
    be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
    May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
    and do you, O prince of the heavenly host,
    by the power of God,
    thrust into hell Satan and the other evil spirits
    who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls.

    In Jesus name, we pray. Amen.

    Liked by 3 people

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