Vaccines – their benefits and alleged and real dangers

I am including a video that I recently watched. I suggest that you watch it too BEFORE expressing negative things you have heard about vaccines. Most of the negative things that are said are by people who – although they mean well – are not scientists and believe that one or two or three stories about children who got sick at about the same time as they got their vaccinations proves that vaccines make children sick.

Vaccines, like any medical intervention, are not 100% effective, or 100% safe. In another video I watched (from Australia), there is a case of a child who becomes ill after his vaccinations because the vaccine acted as a trigger (when the child developed a slight fever after being vaccinated) for a condition caused by a genetic abnormality. The vaccine did not CAUSE the condition, but triggered the first of many seizures resulting from a flaw in his DNA. The condition would have occurred whether or not he had been vaccinated. I just looked for the video, but can’t find it. If I do, I will post it. [It is in the video I DID post, at the 27:00 minutes mark.]

Another case I am aware of deals with live virus polio vaccine (Sabin), which can cause a mild case of polio in some children. Because we have just about eradicated that disease in our country, the benefit of the live virus vaccine no longer exceeds the risk of that very small negative incidence of causing disease. Because of this, inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) is the only kind given in the United States since the year 2000.

Our friend, auscitizenmom, brought to our attention that Sharyl Attkisson ran a piece on her program, Full Measure, claiming that one scientist who worked for the government had, in 2007, told the government that vaccines could cause autism.  This apparently was brought before Congress in 2013, but has been brought up again by Robert Kennedy Jr. There is an article I found about what happened with Dr. Zimmerman. At the heart of this is what Dr. Zimmerman said:

Zimmerman filed a report in which he offered the opinion that vaccines did cause this child’s autism because Child Doe 77 had an underlying mitochondrial condition. Zimmerman’s report further stated that vaccines could well trigger a regression ending in autism in a subset – perhaps a small subset – of children with a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder.

What is Mitochondria dysfunction, why is it important in autism causation and why was it a critical issue in the OAP?

Mitochondria are organelles found in most cells that are responsible for cellular respiration: they convert food energy into ATP which powers cellular function.  Mitochondrial dysfunction can lead to a myriad of functional disorders including muscle fatigue, speech disorders, heart disease, bowel problems and hearing difficulties which make mitochondrial disorders difficult to diagnose.  Many of these same symptoms are commonly reported in children with autism and it is likely that a significant percentage of children with autism have mitochondrial dysfunction. Studies indicate that the percentage of people with autism who have underlying mitochondrial issues could be between twenty and fifty percent.

Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a neurologist with the Kennedy Krieger Institute at Johns Hopkins, found that the mitochondrial dysfunction in Child Doe 77 was an underlying co-factor that, along with vaccines, that resulted in her regression into autism. While Dr. Zimmerman opined in his report that such events are “rare”, more research needs to be done to determine the true scope of the nexus between mitochondrial issues and vaccine injury.

In other words, as far as I can determine by what Dr. Zimmerman said, the vaccine could, along with the underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, result in autistic symptoms. It doesn’t appear that Dr. Zimmerman said that vaccines alone can result in autism. The misconduct at issue here is by lawyers at the DOJ.  The report I read is HERE. It is not at all pro vaccine. If anything, they are attempting to make the case that vaccines are harmful.

THIS IS Sharyl Attkisson’s report. HERE is Dr. Zimmerman’s full affidavit. Another case (I believe) is mentioned where the individual was vaccinated while ill, then given antibiotics; all of this was AFTER the person previously had suffered symptoms consistent with an adverse reaction after vaccination.

Here is the video I mentioned, above.

I am not a scientist. While searching for information, most of the articles I found were anti-vaccination written by people who are also not scientists. I believe in presenting the facts as I find them, if they can be found unadulterated and unedited.

 

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64 Responses to Vaccines – their benefits and alleged and real dangers

  1. auscitizenmom says:

    Where is the test to see if a child has this underlying mitochondrial dysfunction? Shouldn’t this test be given to any child before they get a vaccine? Or, is it that they haven’t developed one because they are denying any connection to vaccines?

    Liked by 2 people

    • stella says:

      I don’t know whether or not they can test for this. The doctor said there should be more research into it.

      Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      As I understand it, it isn’t the vaccine, but the condition itself that causes problems. The vaccine is merely a trigger, not a cause of symptoms. Other things can be triggers (like high fevers), not just vaccines.

      Like

      • auscitizenmom says:

        But, that is just the point. If vaccines are involved in any way, it needs to be looked into, but they are so busy denying any connection they aren’t looking into it.

        Liked by 1 person

        • stella says:

          Look at the section on the Cleveland Clinic website about diagnosis. What you just said I don’t believe is true, by the way.

          Don’t you realize that every medical treatment involves risk? I could give you plenty of examples. I think of my sister who was given a penicillin shot for an infection and stopped breathing because she was allergic. I’ll add here that our sister, the one between us in age, died of pneumonia because they didn’t HAVE antibiotics when she contracted the disease. She was 4 months old.

          Have you ever had surgery? Or antibiotics? Other drugs? You could die as a result of any of those. I had a friend (in his 20’s) who had surgery to have his tonsils removed, and died as a result of anesthesia.

          Liked by 1 person

          • auscitizenmom says:

            Yes. I have been stuffed with injections. I have had a lot of trouble with medications. I try to stay away from any if I can.

            Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              Nobody likes to be stabbed or take other drugs, but I’m glad we have antibiotics. And vaccines.

              Liked by 1 person

              • auscitizenmom says:

                I thank God for antibiotics. And, vaccines have saved lives. But, with autism growing to the numbers it has, it needs to be studied seriously and honestly and I don’t believe it is.

                Like

                • stella says:

                  It is obvious that you believe that vaccines cause autism, and anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a liar or covering up, or something. Not everything is a conspiracy. There are LOTS of studies about autism. What evidence do you have to says “it needs to be studied seriously and honestly and I don’t believe it is.” Is it because no study has found vaccines to cause autism? Does that mean that there is some conspiracy and every researcher is lying?

                  Like

                  • czarowniczy says:

                    Problem I see is they’ve so expanded the ‘autism spectrum’ that it’s approaching useless as a tool.
                    We have a couple of conditions that can arise post-vaccination but the question is: what’s worse, a few possible reactions or a return to the death rates of the 19th century?
                    What bothers me more is the slowed pace of smallpox vaccinations. It was wiped out by the vaccination program but thousands upon thousands of gallons through uncontrolled and illegal production are/were out there and there were indications some holding nations might be playing with the virus trying to make it nastier.

                    Liked by 2 people

          • auscitizenmom says:

            Those children were sick and everything was being done to help them. The vaccines are given to perfectly healthy children and there is a chance they will no longer be healthy. I don’t really think we disagree except you believe the gov is telling us the truth and I don’t.

            Liked by 2 people

            • stella says:

              I believe that vaccines prevent disease, because the statistics prove it. It isn’t a matter of the gov telling the truth. I believe doctors and hospitals do tell the truth, and they – almost without exception – support vaccination. Did you watch the video I posted? I ask everyone who is commenting here to do that. I have watched it more than once. If we aren’t on the same page by reviewing the same information, this discussion is pretty useless.

              Liked by 1 person

        • stella says:

          Why specifically because it involves vaccines? There is no proof that vaccines cause autism, and there have been lots of studies on the subject.

          Like

          • auscitizenmom says:

            You have already said that if the underlying mitochondrial dysfunction is present, it is possible. My position is that they are lying to us and have not actually tested to find out and find a way, like testing for the underlying mitochondrial dysfunction.

            Liked by 2 people

            • stella says:

              I don’t think we have been lied to. Do you really believe that all of the hospitals and doctors in the country are lying? There is readily available info about the condition(s). There is no proven link, but the doctor said we should study it. Testing for the underlying mitochondrial dysfunction – again, read what it says on the Cleveland Clinic website. It might involve MRI, blood tests, psychological profiles and other tests. Do you really think that parents are going to subject their children to a lot of testing like this just to rule out one possible problem that may or may not exist? It isn’t as simple as testing for an allergy, as the dysfunctions aren’t just one thing type, and don’t manifest in the same ways.

              I’ll repeat this again: If the mitochondrial dysfunction exists, the disease will manifest itself eventually with or without a vaccination. The vaccine doesn’t cause the problem, but it can trigger it. So can a high fever.

              The risk vs benefit is clearly in the favor of vaccination for most diseases.

              Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              Here is more about mitochondrial function and autism:

              Autism and Mitochondrial Function: testing and treatments

              https://tacanow.org/family-resources/autism-and-mitochondrial-function/

              Mitochondrial dysfunction and Autism Spectrum Disorder

              Research in mitochondrial dysfunction in ASD has grown in recent years, and there are now many research studies linking mitochondrial dysfunction to ASD.

              In 2010, a groundbreaking study by researchers at University of California Davis showed that 80% of the children with ASD enrolled in their study had blood tests indicating mitochondrial dysfunction (1).

              Other research studies have found

              Biochemical evidence of mitochondrial dysfunction in post-mortem brain tissue of children and adults with ASD (2, 3)
              Markers of mitochondrial dysfunction on brain MR spectroscopy scans of children and adults with ASD (4)
              Mitochondrial and immune abnormalities in children with ASD (5, 6)

              The cumulative evidence now suggests that mitochondrial dysfunction is present in a substantial portion of those with ASD and that it may be an important factor that contributes to the symptoms of ASD.

              Triggers of mitochondrial dysfunction in ASD

              Many different types of triggers can lead to mitochondrial dysfunction, and these may be either genetic or environmental, or a combination of both. Some of the triggers include

              gene mutations,
              shortages of key vitamins and minerals in the diet,
              certain chemicals, heavy metals, and drugs,
              certain bacteria and viruses,
              stress

              Mitochondrial dysfunction, therefore, is a potential explanation for how different types of environmental insults might lead to the symptoms of ASD. One theory is that certain environmental insults may affect those with ASD because they already have an underlying genetic vulnerability that, when combined with an environmental insult, can lead to the symptoms of ASD.

              Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3179978/

              Mitochondrial dysfunction can connect the diverse medical symptoms associated with autism spectrum disorders

              Liked by 1 person

      • auscitizenmom says:

        Then why add the trigger? That is what I am objecting to.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. stella says:

    NOTE: The story about the Australian child is at the 27:00 point in the NOVA video.

    Like

  3. One of my son Josiah’s doctor’s runs one of the 3 state “certified” (I don’t know the terminology but it’s a place the state requires people on the autism spectrum to be evaluated by, I believe) “autism centers” in Michigan & she’s worked with my son for more than 2 decades (though was not part of the team that diagnosed him on the autism spectrum). Anyway we’ve loosely touched on vaccines & autism in our conversations a few times.

    As I understand it, she believes that there is a link between vaccines & autism but I don’t know that she sees it as causative per se. The concern, as I recall, is the giving of numerous toxic substances so close together in the infant &/or young child, especially when the child may have an underlying pre-disposition toward neuro-biological fragility. It’s like if you overload the child’s system with these toxins/diseases some of them do not have the immunological strength to overcome them…

    I cannot fully articulate her perspective but it was Not a view that the people that think vaccines cause autism are conspiracy theorists. If one has autism or ADHD in the family it would be prudent to consider avoiding, delaying, or spacing out vaccines to lower the risk of that neuro-biological nexus of weakness overlapped by toxins/diseases leading to autism spectrum issues–my thought, not a distillation of what the doctor said.

    I don’t know for sure if vaccines played a part in Josiah’s autism spectrum issues but I suspect that they did. He received all the recommended shots in the early years, at least up to age 4 or 5, but after being diagnosed on the spectrum I denied further vaccines for him & his siblings as a precaution. We re-entered the vaccination matrix when he was pre-transplant, having him & his siblings receive whatever vaccines the transplant team recommended on the schedule they suggested. However they were all teenagers then so this seemed (at least to me) to be a presumed diminished autism risk from vaccines.

    When Josiah was an infant, & I don’t remember him having autism “symptoms” before age 2 or so, he was facing A Lot of health issues. He was premature, IUGR (Intra-Uterine Growth Retarded=very small for gestational age–he was 2# 6oz while his twin was 5# 4oz), had congenital heart defects (for which he underwent surgery at 2 months), & contracted RSV & was re-hospitalized about a week after his first discharge post-heart surgery with that infection & again for the same thing about 10 months later. He also had an unplanned surgery on his inguinal hernias when he was in the recovery period from his first surgery. These were major stressors on a young, premature, & relatively sickly baby. Having included the additional stress of vaccines on his system may have been that proverbial straw that broke that camel’s back.

    I agree that much more research should be done on this topic. Autism is such a devastating & lifelong condition that most anything that can be done to reduce the likelihood of becoming autistic should be examined. There are massive burdens on the individual, family, & government support services when autism is involved. Some of those diseases mentioned would be better to risk than autism…

    On a final note, there is a local radio personality in Detroit, Bob Dutko, on WMUZ, that has addressed this topic numerous times. He references some research that was done comparing similarly aged populations (some were Amish who didn’t vaccinate at all) to see if autism incidence was higher in vaccinated populations vs non-vaccinated populations. There was basically no statistical difference in the incidence of childhood illnesses between Vaccine & Non-V kids. There was a distinct statistical difference in Autism with the Vaccinated kids having a Much Higher Incidence. I don’t recall if of those people studied (there were thousands of kids’ data analyzed) if any had autism that were not also vaccinated.

    Thanks for posting the topic, Stella. Very interesting & important.

    Liked by 3 people

    • stella says:

      I think the issue is to rely on your physician(s) regarding vaccination of your particular child/children. It is frightening to watch the scare videos and read the scare articles by people who aren’t scientists or doctors, particularly people who are “famous”. Because someone is well-known in one arena doesn’t make them an expert in another. I’m thinking of people like Jenny McCarthy, Sean Penn etc.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Taking any advice from a “star” is a scary proposition. My other kids’ doctor/pediatrician was definitely of the opinion that there was no link whatsoever between vaccines & autism & he tried to pressure me on several occasions to vaccinate my kids after I’d begun refusing vaccines. I chose to listen to Josiah’s doctor & my gut/heart vs his persuasions. As stated above, I did relent on the issue, but only after transplant was pending & there was a greater risk for Josiah post-transplant, because of his compromised immune system, if he lived with unvaccinated siblings. But as I said above they were all teens by then.

        I would be cautious about vaccinating kids who have siblings &/or other relatives who are on the autism spectrum, have ADHD, are immuno-compromised in any way, or are medically fragile. I also tried to avoid live viruses as much as possible as a precaution.

        Community Health Organizations/Governments can make sweeping policies as Guidelines for the general population, but it’s up to parents/families to decide on an individual basis what, when, & even how to take (or refuse) such advice/policies. At least that’s how it seems it ought to be in a “free” society!

        Liked by 2 people

        • stella says:

          I would say a couple of things here. Right now because most other people are vaccinating their children, yours are protected by herd immunity. Michigan, according to what is said in the video I posted, is losing its herd immunity because vaccination levels have dropped to 89%. If you haven’t watched it, they explain what happened with measles in France because of the lower rate of vaccination there. Thousands of children were infected, and several died.

          Because most of these diseases are very rare these days, most people haven’t seen what they are and what they can do.

          As vaccination rates fall, they won’t be rare and unusual, and side effects to a disease like measles can and have resulted in deafness, blindness, and death. As I have recounted before, my nephew contracted encephalitis following measles, which seriously affected his eyesight. Fortunately, he did not die.

          Pertussis (whooping cough) is a very serious disease in infants and not a minor disease in adults. There is no cure (such as an antibiotic) that will cure it once you have it. You have to just ‘ride it out’.

          Once you see one of your classmates in a respirator because they can’t breathe, or in braces because they can’t walk, the dangers of polio can’t be forgotten. I’m old enough to have seen both.

          Liked by 1 person

          • & given some of the border crisis issues that include “allowing” in people carrying such untreated diseases surely the exposure rates are going to increase in government schools, in particular, where illegal immigrant children attend…

            Liked by 1 person

    • czarowniczy says:

      Issue I have with studies involving ‘closed’ communities is the lack of genetic diversity, many of these closed communities have genetic problems unique to themselves.

      When you have the genetic combinations possible in an individual and that autism is a broad category now and not a single condition I can see it being a long time until we get a real handle on it.

      Liked by 3 people

      • those are all good points to consider

        Liked by 2 people

        • czarowniczy says:

          We have some ‘closed’ Cajun communities down here that have their own built-in gene-based conditions.
          Out in Utah they say that the average Navajo family consisted of Momma, Daddy and Baby Navajo and at least one anthropologist, It’s getting like that in some of our closed communities except you sub ‘medical researcher’.

          Liked by 1 person

          • I’m thinking you are partly responding to what I said about Bob Dutko’s recited research re: autism that examined Amish (I think) &/or other unvaccinated communities. Based on the insights you shared & contemplating a limited gene pool with a potential predisposition to certain genetic weaknesses that would seem to me to make the lack of (or diminished amount of) autism in the unvaccinated children amongst the Amish perhaps even more remarkable given the potentially greater risk factors…

            Liked by 1 person

            • czarowniczy says:

              I was just pointing out that the lack of genetic diversity found in ‘closed’ communities compared to the nation as a whole is an apples and oranges…or oranges and tangerines…situation.
              I’d prefer to research in the general genepool unless we’re talking one or the other as the object of research.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Certainly the results should be more widely applicable if based on the general genepool…

                I’d prefer true scientific research that wasn’t biased by political payoffs & pandering! You know like how the abortion-breast cancer link has been largely suppressed (to the detriment of women) because of the abortion agenda of the nationally stagelighted entities (lefty politicians, lefty “religious” groups, MSM, “stars” who hold abortion sacro-sanct, etc.)…

                Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              Valerie, watch the videos I posted from Khan Academy. He cites several studies (one quite large) in which they found that there was no relationship between the rate of vaccination and the rate of autism. Even where vaccination rates were going down, autism continued to climb. I think that’s very interesting.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Thanks Stella…I’ll try to get on that. I’m really not an advocate in this arena one way or the other…I was just sharing from my experiences & in particular from Josiah’s doctor who also runs the autism clinic. Her opinion I highly value.

                As individuals, we always have to make choices & decisions with incomplete information. In the vaccine/autism debate those parents who are informed (not by “stars” alarmism) about the topic should be in the best position to make an Informed Decision. They need to have reasonably complete info to weigh the risks of (potential contribution to) autism vs the risks of the underlying diseases, including the minuscule disease incident rates that occur via vaccination itself.

                It would be highly beneficial for more research to be done on this topic…& for the data to be made more readily available to providers & parents of children of vaccination-recommended ages. I doubt the public health entities really want parents to be aware of the risks because they would likely prefer to have a very compliant population so that the vaccination rate approaches 100%…My universe with Josiah has often had to do with the 1 in 10,000, 1 in 100,000, & even 1 in 1,000,000 rates in so many domains.

                Because many aspects of his existence have been Extremely Outside the Bell Curve what we are often dealing with is extreme atypicalities. For example, his neurological impairments in his hands: his left hand (non-dominant) 4-5 standard deviations below normal while his right hand (dominant) was 7-8 or 8-9 (I forget the exact number) standard deviations below normal.

                His birth weight was under 1200 grams which (along with our financial situation) automatically qualified him for SSI as “Very Low Birth Weight” at the outset of his life–not even necessarily taking in to consideration his other disabling conditions. His numbers on the growth chart during pediatric days were almost always well below the bottom line (5th percentile, I believe).

                His Learning Disability in Math tested so low as to be something like the 0.0001 Percentile! However his reading skills were above average–go figure…

                His Congenital Absence of the Portal Vein (Abernethy Malformation) that contributed to the need for the Liver Transplant, was such a rare condition that it had only been written up in medical literature maybe 2 dozen times, one of which was by Abernethy in the 1700’s, I believe.

                I used to look through medical literature at the hospital library (I had access because my mom worked there then) trying to find data on his conditions that had at least 3 of his known diagnoses intersect…It was a near impossible task. Every presumed genetic syndrome he was tested for came back negative…He continues/d to stump the experts & few really tried to get a grasp of where he was at with an overall global view as many were much more comfortable just dealing in the arena of their specific specialty. What I wouldn’t have given to get 5 or 6 of his doctors in one room to more thoroughly analyze & diagnosis him!

                In the aforementioned doctor’s practice she told me on several occasions that he was the most complicated child in her practice (& her entire practice is dedicated to very complex special needs kids)…

                Anyway, my experience with Josiah & the magnitude & complexity of his needs is Way Outside “normal” parameters. We pretty much, as Indiana Jones said, are “making this up as we go!” Blessings

                Like

                • stella says:

                  The thing I am worried about is the dropping percentage of children who aren’t vaccinated. If there is a good medical reason, then a high vaccinated population can protect those who are unable to be vaccinated.

                  If the vaccinated population drops to an unacceptable level, state governments could pass laws to insist that children attending public schools must be vaccinated unless there is a clear medical reason why they cannot. This would be completely legal. It wouldn’t be ideal, but preferable to endangering the vulnerable to an increased likelihood of exposure to disease.

                  I believe in individual rights, but I also believe that when individual actions endanger others, it ceases to be a right.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • auscitizenmom says:

                  I really like what you said about parents needing more info to make decisions. You stated it so well.

                  “As individuals, we always have to make choices & decisions with incomplete information. In the vaccine/autism debate those parents who are informed (not by “stars” alarmism) about the topic should be in the best position to make an Informed Decision. They need to have reasonably complete info to weigh the risks of (potential contribution to) autism vs the risks of the underlying diseases, including the minuscule disease incident rates that occur via vaccination itself.”

                  “It would be highly beneficial for more research to be done on this topic…& for the data to be made more readily available to providers & parents of children of vaccination-recommended ages.”

                  Liked by 2 people

  4. stella says:

    Something else that discusses studies about the link between the MMR vaccine and autism. These studies were done in the UK, Finland and other countries. Statistics included. The study in Finland followed 1.8 million children and found zero cases of vaccine-related autism:

    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/health-and-medicine/infectious-diseases/influenza/v/vaccines-and-the-autism-myth-part-1

    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/health-and-medicine/infectious-diseases/influenza/v/vaccines-and-the-autism-myth-part-2

    Like

  5. Menagerie says:

    As most of you know, I have two grandsons who are autistic. This is not an academic discussion to me, we have skin in the game, so to speak.

    Because of influence from people who were anti-vax in the orbit of my daughter in law, people who had a lot of direct personal influence on her, I went pretty deep into this a year or so ago.

    The angle of causation has been covered here pretty well, and discussed well in the comments. We will believe what we believe about it.

    I’m coming at this from a different angle, both in my personal beliefs, and here, for the sake of discussion and analysis.

    Look at the chart up top that Stella included. Really go down the column and read the numbers, then think about that. It is a staggering statistic in favor of saving lives through immunization.

    My two grandsons would have been much more likely to die a hundred years ago from almost every one of those diseases than they are today for all of them added together.

    I have no idea why they have autism, I do want more research and understanding to come for these kids, for their sake, and for all children.

    And I thank God that they won’t die of measles, mumps, smallpox, tetanus, etc. because the vaccinations protect them.

    In this life we weigh the odds and go with the best alternative. You don’t get 100% risk free protection in any medical treatment or any drug. Aspirin and Tylenol can hurt you.

    A huge number of cancer patients, especially children, die from the treatment rather than the disease that would kill the, without the treatment. Chemotherapy is toxic. We all know what radiation is.

    Not even when doing our very best, as parents, medical professionals, and as a caring society, do we have risk free treatments. That does not exist. We are forgetting that fact in the argument about vaccinations.

    Liked by 3 people

    • stella says:

      Thank you for your well considered remarks. A century or so ago, every mother lost children to disease. In my own family, my maternal grandmother’s sister (tuberculosis) and two of her brothers died in their twenties (pneumonia and ?) Another sister died in infancy.

      My paternal grandfather had three of his sisters die of scarlet fever, ages 2, 4 and 6. Another brother died of drowning as a young teen. My paternal grandmother’s brother died at age 25 in 1915; I don’t know the cause.

      Many people died of influenza following WWI. My mother said they all had it, but nobody died in their family. Their friends and neighbors were not so lucky.

      One of my sisters died in infancy of pneumonia.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Menagerie says:

        My mother had a baby sister who died of meningitis.

        At the Catholic cemetery in Chattanooga there is a very large plot with a tall and imposing marker. It is the burial site for an immigrant Irishman, his wife, and their family. All four sides of the monument have names of children and their birth and death dates. It has been a long time since I’ve been there so I don’t remember the exact number, but there were 10 or 12 children who died young, including a set of twins, and most of them were under two, some a little older.

        After stumbling across this family’s grave and marker accidentally when I was there for a prayer service, I sometimes go back when I am there, just because the unbelievable number of children’s deaths in this one family can’t be forgotten.

        I’ve also visited old cemeteries up in Cade’s Cove in the Smokies. There are so many children’s graves there. If you visit old cemeteries, often the children’s graves are half of the number there.

        Liked by 2 people

        • stella says:

          There are a lot of babies. My great aunt Mary lost her baby Lois, age 10 months, of pneumonia in 1911.

          Another thing that made an impression on me. Other than my aunt Mary’s one child, and my grandmother’s children (8), none of the other girls (five lived to adulthood and married) had any children. I wonder if they had some kind of diseases that rendered them sterile?

          Liked by 2 people

          • Menagerie says:

            That is an interesting question. My grandfather had an older sister who never had children, although all his other brothers and sisters did. She was the oldest girl, and had to work very hard at an early age due to the death of her father. My grandfather always wondered if the heavy labor had not damaged her in some way.

            Of course, the problem might have been her husband’s too. But with five girls you do have to wonder.

            Liked by 2 people

      • czarowniczy says:

        I can remember one of my professors telling us how 19th and earlier farmers were so detached from their children as they had large families due to the need for farm labor but fully expected at least half to die before the age of ten.
        Then there were the huge numbers or orphans right up to the early 20th century due to parental death that caused them to be abandoned. Yeah, vaccines and sanitation have gone a long way to making things better.

        Liked by 3 people

    • stella says:

      At least one of my first cousins, Rex, died of pneumonia which was a complication of measles in 1935. He was 10-1/2 months old. His parents were my godparents.

      Liked by 1 person

    • czarowniczy says:

      I get frustrated with all of the non-chemical treatments for cancer that get stuck in the FDA tar pits. There are a few that use viruses to target cancerous cells specifically and they need a fasttrack and greater funding but for some reason they take second seat to chemicals.
      One thing I’ve been watching is the use of dogs in, literally, sniffing out diseases. They have been training dogs in Europe to sniff out prostate cancer and the European FDA has been testing them and is close to approving them. So far the tests show a greater than 90% accuracy and that’s better than any non-invasive tests available. Here the issue is still in the ‘crickets chirping’ stage. They detect corpses, bombs, guns, drugs, hidden people but ***someone*** doesn’t want them to accurately and cheaply find diseases.
      Rant out…bedtime.

      Liked by 3 people

  6. czarowniczy says:

    I do wish I could remember what vaccine it was but in the late 50s we had a few kids come down with life threatening conditions from a childhood vaccine. Not everyone who had the shots did but a few really got nailed.

    Liked by 1 person

    • stella says:

      Polio, I think. There was a problem for a while with the way in which the vaccine was developed. I don’t remember if it was Sabin or Salk, but I rather suspect Sabin because it is a live vaccine (which is no longer used).

      Like

      • czarowniczy says:

        Salk was the first one, it was a killed vaccine and in ’55 there was an incident where a batch contained a portion of virus that wasn’t killed dead and it infected a couple of hundred kids.

        Sabin was an attenuated live virus and is what we use now. The virus is ‘alive’ but has been changed to make it less infectious so it does a better job of activating the immune system.

        What hit these kids around us was and still is a mystery but it was bad and seemed to center around some basic shots though in those days it could have been almost anything.

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        • stella says:

          We haven’t used an attenuated live virus for polio vaccination since the year 2000. The reason? The risk of getting polio from the vaccine, while extremely small, is still greater than getting polio without a vaccine.

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          • czarowniczy says:

            Whoops, right you are. Looks like they went back to the killed virus, I’m betting playing a liability hedge.
            The ’55 incident was due to a batch of killed virus that wasn’t adequately killed. The attenuated works great but with the fears of vaccines period it makes me think they may have swapped back as a way to increase vaccination rates.

            Like

  7. jeans2nd says:

    Stella – up top, at 7:47, “…Testing for the underlying mitochondrial dysfunction…” at the Cleve Clinic – anecdotal, but having been both a patient and subject at Cleve Clinic for several years, it has been my experience that Cleve Clinic tests for everything known and unknown to man, regardless of the condition. Not testing for something at CC would be not normal.

    Having grown up with a friend, Maxine H., who had polio, one may say from experience that acquisition of these diseases is far, far worse than a risk of autism. Maxine was older, born before polio vaccine was available. Hers was a miserable and short life. As young children, Maxine scared us – we’d never seen such. Maxine had very few friends, and seldom, if ever, left the house.

    Maxine died shortly into adulthood. When considering vaccinations, also consider – which is worse, a small risk of autism, which can be treated successfully, or a short miserable life and a miserable death?

    One also wonders what role attorneys had in the autism-vaccine “scare” beginnings? idk

    Like

  8. noeliaabaez says:

    As a medical student I can honestly say I am growing really tired of all these “home doctors” who claim to have done their “research”. There are no new studies linking autism to vaccines because that is a myth! This movement started from a doctor who got his license taken from him for spreading misinformation. I genuinely feel for those who don’t know but am angered at those who try and convince others that vaccines are bad especially with this new recent outbreak of measles.

    Liked by 1 person

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