LIVE: Healthcare Bill House Debate and Vote

UPDATE: Bill pulled. Press conference at about 4:00 PM

Vote will take place some time in the next hour, I have been told. Ryan told Trump at noon that he doesn’t have the votes, but President Trump directed him to hold the vote anyway. At least we will know where every one of them stands on the issue.

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90 Responses to LIVE: Healthcare Bill House Debate and Vote

  1. shiloh1973 says:

    Bill has been pulled and congress in recess til further notice. Turn out the lights the party is over.

    Liked by 1 person

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      Wow just got tweeted this…
      Personally what I wanted to see is Obamacare vetoed or ?? piece by piece and then replaced piece by piece.
      There was just too much pork in Obamacare that had nothing to even do with Health Care.
      This is so crazy…So are they going to take care of Obamacare or just let America’s medical go even further into the gutter.

      Liked by 3 people

      • shiloh1973 says:

        Due to the way Ocare was implemented they could not repeal without 60 votes. Reconciliation was the only way it could be done.
        Unless they can come up with something better that can be done in reconciliation, we are stuck with Ocare.

        Liked by 3 people

        • kinthenorthwest says:

          Ocare is destroying America’s medical and before this decade or at least by the next decade, the only people who will be able to afford medical insurance are those that get it free, or the very rich.

          Liked by 2 people

          • shiloh1973 says:

            That is what we have. I don’t want this to sound harsh, but up until about 20 years ago, half of America did not have health insurance. I went for at least 25 years myself without it. I got sick, I found over the counter or herbal remedies. I cut myself and I either taped it or used steri strips. Really bad, I coughed up the money to get stitches. I have already told my doctor, if I get cancer now at my age (62) I will refuse treatment. Bottom line, none of us get out of this world alive. God decides our time is up. our time is up.

            Liked by 4 people

            • stella says:

              Back when health insurance became a thing, it was used for catastrophic care. If you went to the doctor’s office, you paid for it.

              When I had my baby in the 1960’s I didn’t have health insurance. I paid my doctor in installments during my pregnancy to cover my office visits and delivery, and I paid the hospital in installment after the baby was born. I was in the hospital for only two days, and in a ward of six or eight women (can’t remember which.)

              Liked by 4 people

              • stella says:

                Funny story. When I was about to check out of the hospital, someone in the hospital accounting office told my husband that they wouldn’t release me or the baby unless he paid the bill. He replied, “Well, you can keep them, then.”

                Liked by 3 people

              • shiloh1973 says:

                That is all I want. A catastrophic plan. Can’t get one anymore. Heck, I am 62, I don’t need pre natal and pregnancy. I don’t want their damn yearly tests. I don’t want preventative care. Something breaks, fix it. My doctor has been busting my chops for 3 years to get a mammogram. Never had one, never will. I get breast cancer now and something else will probably kill me before that does. Idiot scheduled one anyway and I told them to shove it.

                Liked by 4 people

            • kinthenorthwest says:

              The biggest problem with America right now is that we are too busy supporting other countries & Non-Americans(non-Americans in and out of America).
              Do you realize wheat % of governmental welfare benefits are paid to households who are either refugees or Illegals (way higher % even Americans).
              We were promised that Illegals and Non-Americans would not be eligible for Obamacare, yet way over 50% of Illegals and Refugees get Obamacare, most of them free.
              Yes I was in the same boat as you, with an income below the poverty level, so I sought out the clinics that based their fees on ones income. What I found really strange is that the clinics that did that in this area were actually set up for Farm Workers or as most of us know them – Illegals.

              Liked by 3 people

              • shiloh1973 says:

                Bottom line, healthcare is not a right that should be granted by the government to anyone!

                Liked by 2 people

                • kinthenorthwest says:

                  Not only that it should not be a reason to penalize those that cannot afford it or don’t want it.
                  H3LL for the first two years of Obamacare i had to take some stupid plan that cost me $50 a month. I had to have $20,000 in medical bills before it paid for anything. Any plan that had a decent deductible was almost 50% of the money I made a year. Hey it was either than or pay the $3000 penalty.
                  When I first started SS two years ago I had fairly decent medicare with a supplement for about $120 a month. That healthcare plan left my area and I’m now paying $300 a month…YEA.

                  Liked by 2 people

                  • shiloh1973 says:

                    It truly is a heck of a mess. Problem is, Obama knew what he was doing when he set it up. That is why it was like 2000 pages. It is so intertwined with all of government it will take a miracle to get rid of it. We will have to wait until it crashes and burns.

                    Liked by 2 people

                  • kinthenorthwest says:

                    I would bet all that I have that i crashes and burns before I leave this world…
                    With what Obamacare is doing to America, it will probably have a hand in when I leave.

                    Like

                  • shiloh1973 says:

                    When we leave this earth, it is because it is our time. Case in point. A few years back 3 guys were driving thru the mountain pass. 2 in the front of the pick up and one in the back. A tree broke off the mountain and crashed thru the windows of the pick up. 2 in the front died, guy in the back no injuries. Do you realize how impossible that really is? A pick up going 60mph, tree breaks loose and actually hits said pick up! Time was up.

                    Liked by 1 person

                  • kinthenorthwest says:

                    I guess what I am saying is that I do believe that Obamacare will not even help with some minor things before long.

                    Liked by 1 person

                  • shiloh1973 says:

                    It already is worthless as far as I am concerned. Best plan I could find would have taken a third of my income with a 6,000.oo deductible. No thanks. This was all a set up for single payer total government control. Hillary was supposed to finish it off. Oops, she lost.

                    Liked by 1 person

                  • G-d&Country says:

                    Agreed 100% This is purposely hurting the working class. That was part of the plan. When I lived in Mass and Romneycare started my premium jumped up to $13,500 a year for ONE person, and that was what – over 10 years ago?

                    Liked by 3 people

                  • Cetera says:

                    It isn’t purposely hurting the working class. It is just suddenly revealing what the cost is to cover everyone.

                    Liked by 1 person

          • amwick says:

            There are a few people on employer insurance that can squeak it out… Hopefully… I am in a bad place age wise… 58 is old enough to pay top premiums and 7 years away from Medicare and thus a supplemental plan….

            Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              I worked and had employer-provided insurance (with a small contribution from me) until I retired completely. By that time, I also had Medicare. After retirement, I added a supplemental insurance policy that includes part D, minimal eye care and dental care.

              Like

              • amwick says:

                We do have employer provided insurance as retirees, but even that has gone through the roof…. My contribution to the employer plan is about $350 a month. Now I know this is dirt cheap compared to some, believe me, I appreciate it.

                Like

            • amwick says:

              Cetera, It isn’t purposely hurting the working class.

              Oh, I think differently. The ACA plan was all along to redistribute income. This does hurt the middle class.

              1.Middle class people have ok (affordable) health insurance.
              2.You take that away by making sure their plans do not meet the ACA requirements, so those decent plans all get cancelled.
              3.You make them, by law, purchase horrible plans that cost three/four/five times as much.
              4.You give away(subsidize) health insurance based on income, which generally excludes the middle class, and make anyone that complains seem mean and nasty….That is ACA in a nutshell, and that was the plan all along..

              Like

              • Cetera says:

                Yes, all true. But it wasn’t designed as a way to stick it to whitey in the middle class.

                It was designed to redistribute wealth and cover all and sundry for anything, ever, while also mandating certain things that are abhorent to God (funding abortion, and worse, making Christians pay for abortion and birth control against their consciences).

                In the process of redistributing wealth under the guise of compassion, yes, someone was going to have to pay for it. Not the fat cats, they excluded themselves of course. That means it is coming out of the productive middle. That’s merely a fringe benefit, however, and not the stated goal.

                Like

            • kinthenorthwest says:

              Amick Medicare and the supplements are rising too..
              My original though not the greatest left the area, so now I pay almost triple of what i once paid.

              Like

              • amwick says:

                You are right.. Dh is on medicare,, his supplement is our employer plan… so together we pay $500 a month,,, and I consider us extremely fortunate… especially after his last problem with that neurological issue…

                Like

  2. stella says:

    Press conference about to begin, I believe.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. kinthenorthwest says:

    There never ever should be or have been a bill as big as Obamacare was put before Congress..
    Wish Congress would pass a bill that limits the number of pages in any bill. Too many bills have been passed with 20% or even more of it having nothing to do with the true intent of the bill.
    Yes Obamacare has some good in it, but over all the way it was passed & all the pork that was put in it was so horribly wrong. Obama and his people have things hidden in Obamacare that are not good for Americans, much less the future of America.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. G-d&Country says:

    I just saw Ryan – Augghhh!!! Saying he doesn’t know how to do this – 1) They had years to figure it out! 2) From what I read HE screwed it up by putting HIS version of h’care in, and not go more towards what was promised to the people. Pres Trump putting in Ryan’s best bud Preibus, and Trump attaching his OK to this bill was bad judgement. This would have been a millstone around Trump’s neck if it passed.
    A very interesting article here: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/03/enough_mr_president__time_to_walk.html
    “So Paul Ryan takes a page from Democrats’ playbook to save Obamacare and passes it off as President Trump’s pledge to repeal it. Yeah, conservatives aren’t so happy about that. President Trump promised to repeal Obamacare, not fix it.
    The establishment have successfully boxed in the president on Obamacare. They’ve told him repeal’s impossible, that the ability to buy insurance across state lines won’t happen, that it’s legislatively impossible. They’ve advised him that if he pursues those objectives, he’ll end up with nothing. His promise to repeal Obamacare will fail. But that’s not true, Mr. President – quite the opposite. If you sign this bill in any form, you will break your promise to the people. You never promised to fix Obamacare; you swore to repeal Obamacare.
    If the president lets the establishment win this round, it will be the first failure of his administration but not the last. They’ll use his tax reform legislation to pay back donors, to fund their interests, to buy votes. They’ll exploit his willingness to deal to give us yet another omnibus.
    A wise man once said: Part of being a winner is knowing when enough is enough. Sometimes you have to give up the fight and walk away, and move on to something that’s more productive. –Donald Trump
    Walk away from the fake repeal, Mr. President. Enough is enough.”
    And yes, I lived without health insurance, and I have never been considered a healthy person. Yes it is horrendous for people not to get the medical treatment they need (I have almost lost my eyes because of it.) The PEOPLE need to wake up, put pressure on, and vote in new representation if it is not what they want – heck run for office. The people on this site are aware, but I’m not sure what to do about the delusional, cognitive dissonance crowd. I was about to comment on the Rockville rape as I have relatives who have lived there for 50 years. They are delusional, and completely stressed with the cognitive dissonance needed to try to keep their lives from falling apart. Add important medical needs to the intellectual dissonance of realizing socialized medicine is not working, and people are freaking out. The progressives use that stress to push their “the gov’t will take care of you” agenda. What does our side side have to counteract their hysteria and dissonance, as well as the progs promise to take care of them? I really do not know as I have not figured out how to deal with my relatives brainwashing.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Col.(R) Ken says:

      Good article, and welcome…..

      Liked by 2 people

    • lovely says:

      I’m glad that Trump walked away from it and let it sink. It was the right thing to do. I will be happier when Ryan is given the boot. Ryan is a self interested horrible person.

      PS There were all kinds of open doors for all kinds of agencies to go snooping around everybody and anybodie’s medical records in the bill if they applied for a gun permit.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Col.(R) Ken says:

        Could this had been a setup, GOPe, Ryan, Pence? To Embarrass Trump?

        Liked by 2 people

        • amwick says:

          Who looks bad.? Now, I mean?

          Liked by 1 person

        • lovely says:

          I personally don’t think it was a set up to get Trump I think it was Ryan’s arrogance that he thought he could ride President Trump’s coattails and get through something that Ryan wanted rather than something that was an actual reformation of Obama Care.

          Ryan is as much of a Soros puppet as is Obama.

          The interesting thing here IMO is that many of Trump supporters did not like what we know of this bill and many of us see it much more as a baby of Ryan. So Trump is not going to lose any support over this failure but I believe that Trump supporters are going to become more vocal in their protests against Ryan.

          I know Trump is a shrew judge of character and I know he has first hand knowledge of many nuances but what the heck he has done with giving Reince the keys to the kingdom is a mystery to me. As far as I know Reince and Ryan are still tight, Ryan is a cancer so what Trump thinks he can do with him other than cut him out is unknown by a small mind like myself.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. hocuspocus13 says:

    …just let it explode…🌋…then hand the mess over to the DemocRats to fix it…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Col.(R) Ken says:

      No, final nail in D-Rats coffin. Listen to Rand Paul, Freedom Caucasus’ plan. Make Medical care like auto insurance, and keep the government out. The only issue I have is pre existing conditions, or catastrophic conditions referred to medcad, Give block grants to the States….Hard to do but keep the criminals/scammers out …….
      Or just send people down to your local VA clinic/hospital…….once the Real Americans get a taste of that BS…….there will be a great March on DC……

      Liked by 2 people

      • stella says:

        That is where high risk state pools comes in. That is one thing missing from O’Care.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Cetera says:

          It isn’t missing. Everyone is in a “high risk pool” because high risk pools have to cover the guaranteed cost of treatment.

          Insurance works by spreading the risk, and pulling in more money in premiums each month than the total claims. High risk pools weren’t high risk at all, they were guaranteed risk. You have medical bills that have to be paid, so you pay for them, with a high premium, and it works just like having a payment plan with the hospital, except it costs you more than paying youself, because the plan has to make a profit too.

          Obamacare is the natural extension of that. People thought it would work, because they are bad at math, and don’t understand probability or exponents.

          Those that did understood it could not and would not ever work, period, and nothing else similar would either.

          Like

        • G-d&Country says:

          As far as High risk pools, when I checked into the one in NH, it closed almost as soon as it opened and then you’re out of luck.

          Like

          • G-d&Country says:

            I am not saying high risk pools are good or bad – just reporting how the one here only works for very, very few – so basically it doesn’t work. Even if you think it’s a good thing it doesn’t really work.
            “Insurance works by spreading the risk,” agreed. It’s like gambling almost. You pay in for years when you are healthy, so you are covered when you are (older usually) and need more care.
            The demographics of the country are changing, and this affects healthcare along with everything else. There are more of the older baby boomer wave, and fewer of the younger people. Illegals etc. bring in disease, and are usually in poor health.
            Government healthcare is not the answer. Our good friend is from Canada. If you are young you may get treated, if you are old, forget it. When I went to Burlington, VT I was amazed at this huge medical center for a small, low population state. I was told by a doctor I met there it was because all the Canadians go there for treatment.

            Like

      • Cetera says:

        Can’t. No “insurance” model can work allowing pre-existing conditions. They simply can’t be paid for. Obamacare or something similar is the only way pre-existing conditions can ever be covered.

        If you’re covering pre-existing conditions, you aren’t providing insurance at all, you’re just providing a payment plan. The cost for that payment plan will be more than the total cost of the medical care received (cost of care + some % of profit for the plan administrator).

        And there-in lies the entire problem.

        Liked by 1 person

        • G-d&Country says:

          If insurance was NOT 1) covering illegals 2) covering all sorts of crazy expensive things it should not be covering (sex change) 3) charging the true cost of items (see doctors that have basically set up their own “plan” by agreements with hospitals and vendors, as well as drug costs being outrageous) 4) if people DID get off all the unnecessary drugs they are on – remember that article from the 1980’s WSJ about the head of a drug company saying everyone in the country was going to be on some sort of meds? 5) covering basic healthcare such as a 1st sore throat visit, and 6) if people had to pay for more of their basic healthcare costs, they would be less likely to be overweight, sedentary, and want drugs and tests for the slightest thing – not everyone is like that, but many are. If insurance did not do these things, then there would be more money for pre-existing conditions. Also years ago there was an insurance accountant whistle blower who spoke of the different accounting rules insurance companies have vs other types of companies. Saw it reported once, then never heard about it again. Someone could look into that (someone very brave).

          Like

        • stella says:

          That is what state high-risk pools are for. Think for a moment. What if a person with a high risk condition (diabetes, for example) needs to have cancer treatment (unrelated). Shouldn’t they be entitled to purchase insurance for catastrophic conditions?

          Like

          • Cetera says:

            Sure, but again, no one is selling insurance. Can’t exclude pre-existing conditions, remember?. Any insurance you purchase will also be forced to cover everything.

            It isn’t like you’re going in to buy insurance against catastrophic conditions. You’re buying a payment plan for everything you have between the instant you sign, and your death.

            That is why no insurance plan can ever cover pre-existing conditions, period. The instant you outlaw pre-existing conditions and caps on coverage, the only possible outcome is Obamacare and the resulting destruction of anyone’s ability to pay for any kind of coverage at all.

            It would be no different if everyone was forced to purchase car insurance, but car insurance covered everything (oil changes, wiper replacements, etc) and no one could be denied coverage, including auto racers, drug smugglers using their own cars to try to avoid law enforcement, and those that have already totalled their car in a drunken stupor.

            “Hi, I need to buy car insurance. My car is wrapped around that telephone pole over there.”

            “Uh, OK, we have to sell to you, and you are guaranteed coverage, and you need a new $80k car? We can’t mitigate the risk? I guess everyone we insure will have to pay for your new car, so everyone’s premium jumps to $800/mo, with a $10,000 deductible.”

            That’s stupid, but it is what we’ve done. Makes no sense for the people who drive cars worth less than $10k, but they have to buy it anyway. ‘Tis the law.

            And yes, eliminating illegals and welfare moochers from the system will help mitigate, but only to a point. The math fundamentally doesn’t work out no matter how much you try to force it to. The end result is always the same, and it doesn’t matter how unfair it seems or whose feelings get hurt.

            That which can’t be paid for, won’t be paid for, and no amount of Ponzi schemes or socialism will fix it, even if it might look OK for a while.

            Like

            • stella says:

              Let’s face it. We aren’t talking about insurance. We are talking about care for people who need it. If a kid requires treatment for hemophilia (a typical exclusion for insurance), we have to find some way for him to get treatment. A kid with hemophilia isn’t a car or a house. The sickest people are the ones who cost the most money. So, if I am lucky to get medical insurance while I am healthy and then I get an expensive disease, or are seriously injured in a car accident, I am covered. Because the kid is born with hemophilia, he can’t get coverage. Does he get treatment? Who pays for it?

              These are the problems that we are talking about.

              Like

              • Cetera says:

                Yes, absolutely it is. That is exactly what we’re talking about.

                The point remains, if you force insurers to cover them, everyone’s premiums go up to the point where no one can afford them, because that cost must be spread around to everyone in the pool. If the insurer doesn’t make a profit, no one gets coverage. What Obamacare does it mandate everything gets covered for everyone, placing everyone in the same risk pool, the extreme end, because everyone must get coverage, and it all has to be paid for.

                So, the little sick kid can be covered, and various other people die for lack of ability to pay (particularly at the older end of the pool, with fixed incomes and worse health), or those normally covered get treatment, and the little kid dies.

                In the end, everyone dies. It is unavoidable. There are going to be tears all around. But again, is it just/right/moral/fair to take, at the barrel of a gun, money from people to use to pay for the sick kid’s treatment? Because that is what you’re doing if there no restrictions on pre-existing conditions.

                Ultimately, what is the most socially acceptable way to choose who lives and who dies from medical issues? That’s the question, and we hide a lot behind a lot of other answers.

                Historically, the answer is that those who can pay for it live the best, and those that can’t, don’t, and over time those that can pay for it force the technology to emerge that can cover those who can’t at a reduced cost in the future. That hasn’t been accepted by Americans for more than 60 years.

                Liked by 1 person

          • Cetera says:

            Also, to answer your question:
            Do you believe it is equitable, moral, or just that the person with a health problem be allowed to take money from you at the point of a gun to pay for their healthcare?

            It doesn’t matter if they caused their health problems or not. Just simply, is it ever acceptable to force someone against their will to pay for your healthcare? Not through charitable contributions or asking for assistance, but forced, under penalty of death?

            Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              I’m not interested in political questions. I’m interested in providing care for people who need it. If they can’t afford to pay for it, what can be done?

              I want to know what you think CAN be done, not listen endlessly to your very well-considered and intellectual reasons why those people should die, because they can’t afford to pay for treatment.

              Liked by 1 person

            • stella says:

              Just about everyone here (including you) has said that they are Christians. Well, what can we do as Christians to take care of people who need it?

              Like

              • Cetera says:

                Do our best to make it as affordable as possible for the most people (see my comments in the previous threads from previous days), and care for the entire individual’s well-being, including spiritual well-being.

                Dying isn’t the worst that can happen. Saving souls, comforting the living, caring, giving respect and dignity in life, and in death. Those are arguably more important.

                Allow people to exercise charity. Allow families, communities, and strangers to come together to take care of those who need it, in person, in spirit, in Love. Sending it off to be dealt with by faceless beancounters at an insurance claims dept or a bureacrat in a gov’t office isn’t the way to go.

                But in order to do that, the whole society has to turn back to God.

                Like

                • stella says:

                  The problem is, Cetera, that if you don’t have insurance, or are rich with a big bank account, doctors and hospitals won’t treat you in their facilities even if you scrape up enough money to pay for your surgery or radiation treatment. Because you might need more treatment, and couldn’t afford it, in their way of looking at things.

                  So, do all the coming together you like as a family or friends or community; chances are that you won’t get treated anyway. See my comment about what happened to my ex-husband.

                  Like

                • stella says:

                  Like Menagerie said the other day about her niece. If it had not been for St. Jude’s, she would have died. Because no insurance. [ADD: They had insurance, but the company considered the treatment experimental, even though it had been used for years.]

                  I suppose you would have told her parents that dying isn’t the worse that could happen. After all, they didn’t have money, so dying was inevitable, right?

                  Liked by 1 person

      • G-d&Country says:

        Agreed, especially “pre existing conditions, or catastrophic conditions”. I really get upset by some idiot choosing very risky behavior getting treatment, and then people like myself who where born with medical problems they certainly never asked for, not being covered, even if the treatment helps.

        Like

        • stella says:

          Let me tell you a story about my ex-husband. When he was 62, he was out of work and uninsured. Because he was single and had no dependents, he was not eligible for Medicaid (this was in California, before ACA). Then he got cancer.

          At the county hospital, he was given palliative care, and some diagnostic tests to determine what he had. He had a tumor that probably should have been removed, and his friends and family raised the money it would costs for his surgery. The hospital wouldn’t allow the surgery to be done in their facility because he didn’t have insurance.

          He became sicker and weaker, and his doctor finally said that chemotherapy might kill him in his weakened state, assuming it could be paid for. He died.

          I’m not saying that he would have lived if he had access to the treatment that I would have had access to because I was insured (and am now). Nevertheless, why does this happen?

          He wasn’t a car or a house. He was a human being, and he didn’t cause his own cancer.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Cetera says:

            I understand. And if there were complications in surgery, it might have been more involved, with no way to pay for it. Because of various Medicare laws, it is impossible for a doctor or facility to write off services provided, or take payment in other forms (trade, barter, etc) and do it on their own, as an act of charity. To do so would undermine the financial stability of Medicare, so it isn’t allowed.

            Your husband died because the laws in place prevented him from being treated because to do so might result in someone else being untreated. But ultimately, that’s what happens in countries with universal health care. Canadians still come here for treatment, ’cause it is faster, better, available now. If not, they may not get treated in Canada, because ultimately not everyone can be treated. It is a law of economics and the reality of existence in this universe. Only Christ can save the world, save everyone. No matter what we do, we just can’t save everybody. Entropy, and the physical laws governing nature, prevent it.

            I pray that your ex husband was taken Home, to rest in peace for eternity, at the side of his Lord and Savior, and all his family.

            Like

            • stella says:

              I am asking, again, that this line of conversation stop. Now.

              I know what you think and, frankly, I think it lacks compassion. No, not everyone can be saved. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try. I’m sorry, but that is what I believe.

              Honestly, it is this way of thinking that makes me understand why Democrats hate conservatives (or what they believe conservatives are like).

              Like

          • Cetera says:

            That’s why I said previously that everything had to be repealed, all of it. Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, everything. It all causes situations like your ex’s untimely death.

            The only solution is to drain the swamp, stop allowing medical monopolies, prosecute fraudulent pricing, and stop giving free care to illegals, and allow facilities to turn away people who can’t pay. Allow the prices on treatment to collapse by 90%, and allow any provider to treat anyone they want, and to take payment by however can be negotiated between the two parties, and let Freedom reign.

            Then let humanity be good to each other, acting in love and charity, and it will be the best it ever can be. Not good enough. People will still die, and there will still be tears, and unfairness. But I believe it to be the best possible option.

            Like

            • stella says:

              Enough for today, Cetera.

              Like

            • Cetera says:

              Ultimately, when everyone becomes more concerned about how to take care of their neighbor, and less about how to make sure they get taken care of themselves, then we’ll discover the best solution we can do.

              Liked by 1 person

                • Cetera says:

                  Sorry, I didn’t see the other requests for me to cease, as I was responding via email, and I hadn’t seen those further down yet. I’m not trying to antagonize you, Stella. I’m done with this conversation.

                  I’m sorry you don’t think I’m compassionate. I am sorry if I’ve hurt you today.

                  Perhaps you can assist me with starting my own blog, so you don’t have to deal with me here? Maybe even if you don’t mind if I still stick around?

                  Let me know.

                  cetera gmail com

                  Like

                  • stella says:

                    You can stick around. No, I don’t think you are compassionate. At least, you do not come across as compassionate. And no, you didn’t hurt me, but you did annoy me and give me a headache.

                    It’s easy to start a blog, if that’s what you want to do. They require maintenance and lots of time, so don’t do it without thinking about it first.

                    Like

                  • Cetera says:

                    May we start a different discussion, lower down, on what is compassion, then? I’m genuinely confused by your take on this.

                    Like

                  • stella says:

                    I have no desire to continue this conversation.

                    Like

                  • Cetera says:

                    Fair enough. Your blog, your rules. Have a pleasant weekend.

                    Like

            • G-d&Country says:

              God Bless Stella. God Bless Cetera. God Bless good people who disagree. We all have different life experiences that cause us to see life as though looking through different lenses.

              Liked by 1 person

          • stella says:

            Of course, he had insurance continuously for years, paid by him and his employer. But at that moment in time, he was uninsured.

            Like

          • G-d&Country says:

            I am sorry for your loss and your distress at your ex-husband’s situation. I have shed, and seen shed many tears about illness and death. When government, law, and business issues are added in to an emotional subject, I find it difficult to follow all the details and discussions on a blog thread, and do not answer some comments I normally would. People who have not had to deal with long term illness, or a long term dying process, often have no true understanding of the toll it takes. You don’t really know until you live through it, even sometimes for those good people who try hard to understand.
            “He became sicker and weaker, and his doctor finally said that chemotherapy might kill him in his weakened state, assuming it could be paid for…. why does this happen?” I have my thoughts on this, and they are not happy thoughts. My hubby right now is visiting for the last time his good friend of 23 years who is 53 years old and dying of cancer. I really think in his case the doctor got him past the 5 year survival rate marker, and then could not be bothered doing more because he was on to another group of patients. The doctor said to him ” You made it past 5 years, everyone else in the study is dead”. Not everyone in medicine is in it because of a kind heart. The hospital industry is as vicious as the next. There was a good ER in our working class town, but the next town over (wealthier) also had a hospital. The president of the wealthier hospital knew my brother. He told him he was going to keep lowering costs until he put the working class hospital with the good ER out of business. That is exactly what he he did, and then he expanded his ER and hospital.

            Like

            • facebkwallflower says:

              “People who have not had to deal with long term illness, or a long term dying process, often have no true understanding of the toll it takes. You don’t really know until you live through it, . ”

              I have lived my entire life watching loved ones battle illness, hospitals, shitloads of paperwork, studies, hospice before there was such a thing, and everything imaginable one goes through stating down the misery of a long and slow death. I have seen all this with the best of care and the worst of care.

              My conclusions, in relation to insurance and government responsibilities, are right in line with Cetera. I know his/her insights eliquently shared are not influenced by a lack of compassion because with my more than your average bear supply of sickness around me, I have been left with more compassion in my pinky than twenty people who have not walked in my shoes has…..

              ….and thus, appreciate and understand Cetera’s insights AS full-throttle from a good, kind, thoughtful, compassionate heart.

              Fwiw. Not much to anyone but maybe Cetera. 😉

              Like

          • facebkwallflower says:

            “Because he was single and had no dependents, he was not eligible for Medicaid”

            Real easy solve, you and he could have remarried, you could have priceeded to make less money so he would have a dependent, and….well, there were options, albeit outrageous ones but when talking cancer and life and death would that have really been so off the wall?

            Like

            • stella says:

              No way. I hadn’t seen him in years, and had no desire to remarry. I’m quite sure he felt the same! After all, he could have married a local gal. He was married and divorced twice more after me. No more children, though.

              Like

    • amwick says:

      I think this was our President’s plan B… He does not seem all that upset by the way it turned out.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. shiloh1973 says:

    Personal belief here. I hate insurance of all kinds. It is betting against yourself. I have homeowners because I live in an area prone to wildfires. That is a good bet. I have car insurance because too many idiots don’t, but I keep it at the minimum. Health insurance, whatever. I take the money I would spend on that and put it in the bank for when I need it. I have been doing that most of my life. I have a pretty tidy sum built up. I rarely go to the doctor. I did have the problem a few weeks ago when the dog attacked. Oh well, pay the bill. I know someone is going to say, well what if you get cancer or something that will kill you? Then I die. My husband died when he was 52 years old. Lesson learned: when our time is up it is up.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Cetera says:

      Ultimately, that’s the biggest truth. The rest of it is all just arguing whom can be stuck with the bill for a while.

      I love my health share. Anything else is pretty much gravy. God willing I’ll be dead long before retirement.

      Liked by 1 person

      • shiloh1973 says:

        Already retired and still hanging in there. In the next few weeks, I will be pre paying for my death. I plan on cremation and have already talked to my brother about it. We are on the same page. Other than monthly bills, I have no debts. We have already decided that I will gift my home and property to my neighbors son. No fuss, no muss.

        Liked by 2 people

    • shiloh1973 says:

      Forgot to mention, I have never believed in life insurance. As soon as my late husbands son turned 18, we cancelled both of our policies.

      Liked by 2 people

      • stella says:

        I don’t have life insurance either. I hope I will still have money set aside for final expenses when I die. I already own a cemetery plot. I’ll probably be cremated and interred in my plot.

        Liked by 3 people

        • shiloh1973 says:

          You can actually buy a plan now. It is kind of like a life insurance policy. It accrues interest and you family may actually get money back. Both of my parents did this. Everything was covered and my brother and I actually got a few bucks back. At the time they bought their policies prices were lower. I told my brother to scatter the ashes on the back side of my property.
          One thing to know, in case you don’t, cremated ashes weigh a lot more than I thought. Also do not fall for the sales pitch on the casket they want to use for cremation. When my husband died, they tried to up sell me to this beautiful pine casket. I live in a small town, where we all know each other. My husband was a great woodworker. I looked at the funeral director and said “if I cremate Jeff in this he will come back and haunt me forever” I decided on what they call the fiber board box. Perfect. You have to understand, my husband died unexpectedly. He had a rare view on death. His view was, ” would you actually morn over a worn out pair of jeans?” Once the soul has left for a better place, why would you morn.

          Liked by 3 people

    • amwick says:

      The series of 5 IV immune Globulins that Dh just received is (about) $25000. Yes, that is the right number of zeroes…This does not include ER, and six days in the hospital. I am figuring the cost of this would be, well, I can’t figure it out…

      Liked by 1 person

      • shiloh1973 says:

        That is the real problem with health care. Not the insurance, but the actual cost of the care. It has gotten truly insane. We need tort reform and we need to get the cost of all drugs down.

        Like

  7. jeans2nd says:

    Listening to local talk radio tonight, our local TEA Party has now been relabeled as the House Freedom Caucus.

    My local people are GOPe, Dem, Ind, TEAs, unions, anarchists, all of the above… Most are POTUS voters and supporters. POTUS is not being blamed here.

    The end result of all this seems to be, the TEA Party has taken another unfair hit with a new label. Perhaps that is the saddest outcome of all this.

    For now. Just wait. My money is on the (newly labeled) T party (Earl Gray is recommended for evening).

    Like

  8. lovely says:

    Exclusive — Discussion About GOP Replacement to Paul Ryan as Speaker of the House Intensifies in White House, Congress

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/24/exclusive-discussion-gop-replacement-paul-ryan-speaker-house-intensifies-white-house-congress/

    If anyone was set up, I think it was Paul Ryan, I hope that President Trump wants him gone.

    Liked by 1 person

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